[Soupdragon]

..........but.

Within the next 28 days I will be in the position of being able to buy a new toy.

The agony being D300 or 5D.

I don't have any particular subject preference or brand loyalty for that matter, well, possibly macro.

On paper, I'll say that again! ON PAPER, the D300 out performs the 5D in all aspects with one exception.
Final IQ and signal noise (yep, that old chestnut)

Anyhoo, I'm open to suggestions be they from avid brand followers or those with a passing interest or even those with experience of both.

I'd also like to hear options up to about the £1500-£1600 mark!

[silkstone]

I've agonised long and hard over the pros and cons of full frame, and in the end I decided that APS-C wins on points. Noise levels are so low nowadays that this argument for f/f no longer holds. APS-C scores not only on price but also on size, weight, burst rate, telephoto capability and now the live view. I'm really not sure that the perceptible IQ of full frame is really any better than the latest APS-C.

The 5D is a very good camera but also needs very good glass and can still be prone to vignetting. I'm surprised it wasn't updated for PMA, and I'd expect a new version in the autumn.

D300 or 40D? Your call! They are both excellent - and also have a good resale value.

[Soupdragon]

I'm thinking along the same lines as you really.
I'm guessing from a future point of view the D300 or 40D will hold strong for 18 months.
I don't do a lot of wide stuff so full frame is, as you say, not a requirement.
And of course, with pano software being so good, you should still be able to get the angle of view required for what I do.

Thanks, I'll scrub round the 5d.

[silkstone]

The super-wide APS-C lenses (Sigma 10-20, Canon 10-22) are pretty good and give an equivalent FoV of 16mm (or 15mm on the D300). There aren't many rectilinear lenses wider than 16mm for full frame. Stepheno has borrowed my (full frame) Sigma 12-24 to use with his 5D and the results at 12mm are quite impressive, but I'm not sure how often you'd use it once the novelty wears off.

[Soupdragon]

Another problem I have with the 40D is, I can't see much between it and the 400D (FOR MY PURPOSES) before I get flamed.

[silkstone]

The command dial wheel thingy on the back is worth the extra. Well, almost. And now there's the 450D which sounds very good. If that suits you, why not save some brass and get it?

[spxxxx]

5D all the way - Full frame - lenses like they should be - yes it needs good glass but if you are paying top dollar for a body you should be using good lenses.

Oh and from March 1st there is another Canon promotion £150 off

[Sonsey]

I'd probably go with the 5D and a EF100mm macro lens as you seem to be mainly a Macro man, the IQ from the 5D really is outstanding... but in saying that, if you do shoot a decent amount of other styles then perhaps the D300 would be the better allrounder.

Either way, your going to end up with a great piece of kit ...that you can sell on again in 6 months!

[Soupdragon]

Well big thanks for your thoughts all.
It's still about as clear as mud though.
I'd like a 5d just to say I had a 35mm sensor but wonder how much real world difference there is between that and modern APS sensors.

Is buying and selling cameras really what I am best known for?

[Soupdragon]

Originally Posted by spxxxx

5D all the way - Full frame - lenses like they should be - yes it needs good glass but if you are paying top dollar for a body you should be using good lenses.

Oh and from March 1st there is another Canon promotion £150 off

Now that's an ineresting nugget!

[stepheno]

I won't and can't enter into any discussion regarding Nikon since I've never used one and wouldn't have a clue. But, Soupy, I'm in the fortunate position to have a 40D and a 5D. Why because it's horses for courses and therefore a comparision between even these two is a bit pointless. I regularly cover soccer so the burst rate of the 40D makes that a no brainer but I also do landscape whereever and whenever I can so out comes the 5D plus a wide-angle and that is something to behold. Add a 24-105 and I have a perfect walkabout combo.

I remember reading someone else's comments on first looking through a 5D viewfinder - "Whoa......who turned the lights on!" - it's true. So, in my opinion, you really need to decide what you want a camera for. Be it D300, 40D, 5D - you will be getting a cracking camera but will it be best for your style of shooting. Only you can decide

Oh....and the longer you sit on the fence the more shooting time you've lost, and it doesn't come round again

[Soupdragon]

Interestingly enough, you have the two cameras I would like to hear personal views about.
I hear comments suggesting the 40D and 5D IQ's are not far removed, is this true or just wishful thinking?

Having thought about my opening gambit, what I really want is an optimal all rounder.
I am trying to make myself believe a 12mp aps can be as good as a 12 mp 35mm as there are workarounds for landscape stuff.
I wonder if using a lens with a 35mm circle in its sweet spot negates the need for an FF sensor.

As with many people I am on an inflexible budget and with that I am never really going to get what I want.

Thanks for the thoughts and, if you get a chance to post some comparisons? I'd really like to see them.