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Cameras, Lenses and Accessories: Discuss D200/D300/D300s...Hi, The reviews of the D300s certainly seem to be glowing. I considered that my D200 produced pretty decent images.......is ...
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Old 20-12-2014, 04:29   #1 (permalink)
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D200/D300/D300s

Hi,

The reviews of the D300s certainly seem to be glowing.

I considered that my D200 produced pretty decent images.......is the improvement that much or is there some hype involved here?

I don't need the video functions on the D300s. The live review would certainly useful. Is the D300 something worth aspiring to? Should I come up to date with sensor technology and consider the "s"?

It's all "pipe dream" or hypothesis at the moment so this isn't going under "which camera".

Thanks for any thoughts.
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Old 20-12-2014, 11:03   #2 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

The D300 / 300s is superior in every respect to the D200. CMOS sensor instead of CCD, better focus system - 51 points against 11, 15 cross type focus points against 1 on the D200, 100% viewfinder coverage v 95%, a better LCD, better high ISO performance, much better battery life, - it was a giant leap forward from the D200. The D300s is pretty much the same as the D300 with the addition of video and it has two card slots IIRC. Bearing in mind that the D300 is older than the D300s they might be harder to find or be more used than the later D300s. You don't have to use the video mode.
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Old 20-12-2014, 11:57   #3 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabhand16 View Post
The D300 / 300s is superior in every respect to the D200. CMOS sensor instead of CCD, better focus system - 51 points against 11, 15 cross type focus points against 1 on the D200, 100% viewfinder coverage v 95%, a better LCD, better high ISO performance, much better battery life, - it was a giant leap forward from the D200. The D300s is pretty much the same as the D300 with the addition of video and it has two card slots IIRC. Bearing in mind that the D300 is older than the D300s they might be harder to find or be more used than the later D300s.

Not sure that's what I wanted to hear!! haha



Thank you very much for your honest response.




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You don't have to use the video mode.


No Indeed you don't.

Last edited by David F; 20-12-2014 at 12:05.
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Old 20-12-2014, 21:51   #4 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I recently spotted a D300 + 4 lens kit on craigslist for $1500 that I'm trying to raise cash to purchase. I priced out the lenses and camera and it's used "eBay price" separately is about $2600. MY goal is to keep one of the lenses for myself and hook up a friend with a payment plan so he can upgrade to a better camera and get some great lenses in the process..

D300 and D300s are fine cameras indeed. (heck so is the 200, it's just getting old...)

These days, I would not even think about the video function of the 300s. As it's only 720P. Pretend to not see it.
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Old 20-12-2014, 23:22   #5 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

Like Graham said, the D300 and D300s are pretty much the same camera. The D300 lacked the focussing ability of the D300s but then Nikon sorted that out and updated the firmware for the D300 to bring it line with the D300s.

As mentioned the battery capability of the D300s is both good for the number of shots per charge but also for its power output when driving older non-AF-S lenses. These lenses require the screw motor in the camera to drive their focussing and the difference in focussing speed from the D200 to the D300(s) is the subject of several remarks on various websites.

This battery power also allows the D300s to reach 7 frames a second, or 8 with the the battery grip. If shooting jpeg (e.g. for sports) you can get more than 6 seconds worth of shots before the buffer fills up and the camera slows down.

I find the double card slots on the D300s a bonus as one of the configurations allows immediate backup per shot. You can also use the second slot for only video or to extend the first card, or to record different format (NEF to card 1, jpeg to card 2).

The video is thrown in as a 'sweetener'. As Loyd says it is low performance, can only run for 5 minutes in any one continuous sequence (although this far exceeds the generally accepted 17 second maximum attention span for any cinematic/tv scene). Personally if video was my thing I would look elsewhere than the D300s. It is usable but not for anything serious.

Finally out of all this, why are you looking only at D300(s)? If you do not need the rugged build of the D300, the rapid fire capability or the 1000 shots per charge etc... then I would look at the D90. The sensor is more recent and is as good if not slightly better. It may not be the 'pro' camera, but if I were considering the price advantage I would look at this or the D7000. These are much lighter cameras and quite capable, and available second hand for a very reasonable price. Going to the introduction cameras (D3***, D5***) will not couple with older lenses. The D7000 is as far up the scale as you probably will want to go without considering another computer to handle the larger files.
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Old 21-12-2014, 02:05   #6 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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Originally Posted by grease spot View Post
Like Graham said, the D300 and D300s are pretty much the same camera. The D300 lacked the focussing ability of the D300s but then Nikon sorted that out and updated the firmware for the D300 to bring it line with the D300s.

As mentioned the battery capability of the D300s is both good for the number of shots per charge but also for its power output when driving older non-AF-S lenses. These lenses require the screw motor in the camera to drive their focussing and the difference in focussing speed from the D200 to the D300(s) is the subject of several remarks on various websites.

This battery power also allows the D300s to reach 7 frames a second, or 8 with the the battery grip. If shooting jpeg (e.g. for sports) you can get more than 6 seconds worth of shots before the buffer fills up and the camera slows down.

I find the double card slots on the D300s a bonus as one of the configurations allows immediate backup per shot. You can also use the second slot for only video or to extend the first card, or to record different format (NEF to card 1, jpeg to card 2).

The video is thrown in as a 'sweetener'. As Loyd says it is low performance, can only run for 5 minutes in any one continuous sequence (although this far exceeds the generally accepted 17 second maximum attention span for any cinematic/tv scene). Personally if video was my thing I would look elsewhere than the D300s. It is usable but not for anything serious.

Finally out of all this, why are you looking only at D300(s)? If you do not need the rugged build of the D300, the rapid fire capability or the 1000 shots per charge etc... then I would look at the D90. The sensor is more recent and is as good if not slightly better. It may not be the 'pro' camera, but if I were considering the price advantage I would look at this or the D7000. These are much lighter cameras and quite capable, and available second hand for a very reasonable price. Going to the introduction cameras (D3***, D5***) will not couple with older lenses. The D7000 is as far up the scale as you probably will want to go without considering another computer to handle the larger files.

I don't need it, no but I like it.

I'm not sure about this 7 frames a second against 5 or whatever......am I the only one who takes one image at time?

As I say money isn't burning a hole I my pocket and the question really was is the praise heaped on the D300 justified or is it the reviewer(s) trying to sweeten the camera co. It seems to be the former. I'm still not in a position (regrettably) to make big-buck (to me) purchases whatever the temptations.

The notes on focus speed are interesting as my D200 seems unduly slow to focus the 50mm prime lens. The Sigma 105mm is lightning quick.

Thanks for all the thoughts. All food for thought.
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Old 21-12-2014, 17:33   #7 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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The notes on focus speed are interesting as my D200 seems unduly slow to focus the 50mm prime lens. The Sigma 105mm is lightning quick.
Could this be a D lens vs. AF-S? (Screw drive vs. electrical signal focus)

My D200 was a little sluggish focusing D series lenses as I recall.
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Old 22-12-2014, 02:48   #8 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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Could this be a D lens vs. AF-S? (Screw drive vs. electrical signal focus)

My D200 was a little sluggish focusing D series lenses as I recall.

The Nikkor AF-S 35mmm DX F1.8 lens.
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Old 22-12-2014, 02:57   #9 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

That is somewhat odd that a little AF-S 35mm would be slow to focus..
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Old 22-12-2014, 08:58   #10 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by David F View Post
The Nikkor AF-S 35mmm DX F1.8 lens.
In your earlier post you said

Quote:
my D200 seems unduly slow to focus the 50mm prime lens.


Maybe what ever lens it is is slow to focus because it the camera is hunting to find the focus point you want.
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Old 22-12-2014, 13:22   #11 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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In your earlier post you said





Maybe what ever lens it is is slow to focus because it the camera is hunting to find the focus point you want.

I know, I was aware of the casualness of the description as I wrote it. I meant 50mm "DX".

I WILL check on the settings. Good point.

Technology now is a funny thing. I'm wondering really where we stand. I used an Olympus OM10 for a long time as a kid. YOu bought a decent (or half decent) camera and you stayed with that. Now technology is a major factor and can you afford to take that stance now? The D200 is a capable camera and produces good images. 2nd hand it was all I could afford and stretched me technically. Now, not two years down the line we're saying a D200 went out with the dodo.

I presume the same will be the case whatever I do; even if I buy Nikon's latest 2000/3000 body? (which isn't an option)
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Old 22-12-2014, 15:53   #12 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

The D200 is, as you say, a very capable camera but it went out of production in 2007 so its technology is several generations old compared to the latest kit. Back in the day when cameras were 100% manual they all were just a lightproof box with a shutter. Development of this level of technology was virtually non-existent and what development there was was in film technology and lenses. Then built-in meters were introduced followed by autofocus, and with these electronic systems development started as electronics became smaller, faster, more energy efficient and more capable. With digital cameras (dSLRs) the body is just a computer and the various components such as the sensor, buffer, processor input and outputs all are being developed and improved constantly, so you will never be up to date. As soon as you buy a new camera it is out of date as the next generation is close behind.

When to jump from where you are to where you want to go will depend on how you see what the later technology can do for your photography. Resolution, lower noise, lower noise at higher ISO, higher ISO, better metering and better autofocus capabilities are the main areas that are improved with development.

I started my digital journey with a compact in 2002. This lasted me until late 2005 before I got my first dSLR - a Nikon D70s. About 3 years later I bought a D300 having decided that it was a better bet than the D200 that was at the top the wish list and after 2 years I got a D700. The D700 was my retirement gift to myself and had I not retired I would probably still be using the D300 as in spite of the better noise and ISO capability I would probably not have updated to the D7000 or D7100.

For me the D800/800e or the Df did not quite reach the tipping point for me to upgrade from the D700. I did not really want or need what the D3s offered over the D700+grip, but now the D810 is on my wish list having had my D700 for nearly 5 years - and will likely be well over 5 years if I ever do upgrade.
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Old 22-12-2014, 18:21   #13 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I'm confusing myself now.

The lens is the Nikkor AF-s 35mm F1.8 DX which I believe works out as a 50mm "prime".

I hear what you say about sensors etc but if what you have is producing a decent image isn't that the main criteria?

I went though these arguments at one time when I was doing audio stuff. It is different with cameras because it is (for me) more creative but I do wonder at what point diminishing returns set in. Spunking well upwards of 500 every two/ three years sounds a dear way to go.

Having said that I do like the sound of the D300/D300s.(film quality?)
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Old 22-12-2014, 19:06   #14 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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so you will never be up to date. As soon as you buy a new camera it is out of date as the next generation is close behind.

....But you still have a fine camera..


My reasons for upgrading to a D800 from D200. (In order)

It had been 5 years since I bought myself a new camera and I had the money

Low light performance - I felt that the D200 was limiting me due to low light performance and noise at high ISO.

Full frame - I wanted my lenses to look like they should on a 35mm. This was a dual expense - camera AND FX lenses...

Autofocus improvements

Megapixels - I REALLY do not regret all the extra pixels I process. Cropping 40% of a frame and still having the dots to print 16x20 is nice.. Yes best to crop in the lens but sometime the situation doesn't work out, or the lens you have right now isn't up to the job..

-------------------
A friend of mine teased me that I no longer had the latest and greatest when the D810 came out. When was I going to sell mine to him for cheap and get a new one? I quipped back "I couldn't saddle you with the burden of this worn out piece of yesterday's gear. I alone will shoulder the burden"

I'll never have a D810 unless they go on sale for $500. I'll probably be looking in 4 more years.. Buy in 5-6... Unless something major changes that I can't possibly live without. (unlikely)
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Old 22-12-2014, 20:06   #15 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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I'm confusing myself now.

The lens is the Nikkor AF-s 35mm F1.8 DX which I believe works out as a 50mm "prime".
A 35mm lens prime is a 35mm prime lens. This has the equivalent field of view as a 50mm lens on a full frame body, but it remains a 35mm prime lens.

Quote:
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I hear what you say about sensors etc but if what you have is producing a decent image isn't that the main criteria?
If you are happy with what you have that is all that matters. But would you be happier with better results? As Boofers said, would better low light performance improve your pictures, or would being able to use higher ISO with no increase in noise assist you in getting pictures that you might struggle with at the moment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David F View Post
I went though these arguments at one time when I was doing audio stuff.
Me too. The law of diminishing returns hits hard once you get to a certain point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David F View Post
It is different with cameras because it is (for me) more creative but I do wonder at what point diminishing returns set in. Spunking well upwards of 500 every two/ three years sounds a dear way to go.

Having said that I do like the sound of the D300/D300s.(film quality?)
Maybe better than film quality.

Ultimately only you can decide if an upgrade will either make your life easier by enabling you to get pictures more easily in difficult conditions, or give you improved results by way of more accurate colour rendition, exposure and reduced noise.

I've never seen any of the stuff that you shoot so don't know what your range of subjects are
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Old 22-12-2014, 22:23   #16 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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...Spunking well upwards...
Sorry but I had to laugh at that.

I thought there was a filter on these forums.
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Old 23-12-2014, 08:41   #17 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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Sorry but I had to laugh at that.

I thought there was a filter on these forums.

It was meant in innocence.

:-)
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Old 23-12-2014, 08:51   #18 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabhand16 View Post
A 35mm lens prime is a 35mm prime lens. This has the equivalent field of view as a 50mm lens on a full frame body, but it remains a 35mm prime lens.



If you are happy with what you have that is all that matters. But would you be happier with better results? As Boofers said, would better low light performance improve your pictures, or would being able to use higher ISO with no increase in noise assist you in getting pictures that you might struggle with at the moment?



Me too. The law of diminishing returns hits hard once you get to a certain point.



Maybe better than film quality.

Ultimately only you can decide if an upgrade will either make your life easier by enabling you to get pictures more easily in difficult conditions, or give you improved results by way of more accurate colour rendition, exposure and reduced noise.

I've never seen any of the stuff that you shoot so don't know what your range of subjects are


"Ultimately only you can decide if an upgrade will either make your life easier by enabling you to get pictures more easily in difficult conditions,"

I'm sceptical it would make such a difference to my lifestyle and only I can decide if that capital outlay will be repay to me. Unfortunately the answer must be no. Obviously yes I'd love to go at a D300s but money is limited and I don't have you guys' spending power.

Am I happy with what I've got? Strictly speaking, no, I'm uncomfortable with being left behind in the technology stakes. (plus uncomfortable posting images for that reason)

Last edited by David F; 23-12-2014 at 09:03.
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Old 23-12-2014, 09:50   #19 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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Am I happy with what I've got? Strictly speaking, no, I'm uncomfortable with being left behind in the technology stakes. (plus uncomfortable posting images for that reason)
You don't have to have the latest kit to produce great pictures. Quite a while ago we ran a competition for pictures taken on a compact camera and the entries were excellent

Fortnightly Photo Theme - Your Best Compact Camera Pic - Pixalo Photo Gallery

Your D200 will have limitations compared to later cameras, but you can work around these limitations and still get good results.

I'm not suggesting that these images are to be put on a pedestal, but they are not too shabby and were taken with a 1.3 megapixel compact made in 2001. At the time I was going through a presentation phase









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Old 23-12-2014, 09:59   #20 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

They look fine to me!
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Old 23-12-2014, 10:00   #21 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I'll come to this Graham.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.
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Old 26-12-2014, 10:32   #22 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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You don't have to have the latest kit to produce great pictures. Quite a while ago we ran a competition for pictures taken on a compact camera and the entries were excellent

Fortnightly Photo Theme - Your Best Compact Camera Pic - Pixalo Photo Gallery

Your D200 will have limitations compared to later cameras, but you can work around these limitations and still get good results.

I'm not suggesting that these images are to be put on a pedestal, but they are not too shabby and were taken with a 1.3 megapixel compact made in 2001. At the time I was going through a presentation phase











Well, I put it to the "man from Delmonte" and the "ma from Delmonte" said yes.

So, in the final analysis (in terms of photography) Is this my best way of splurging 300/400?
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Old 26-12-2014, 11:23   #23 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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Well, I put it to the "man from Delmonte" and the "ma from Delmonte" said yes.

So, in the final analysis (in terms of photography) Is this my best way of splurging 300/400?
As long as you don't expect the camera to give you better pictures.

It will improve the results you get in terms of reduced noise etc and will enable you to get pictures in situations where the D200 is struggling by way of better high ISO performance, superior focus ability and metering, but it can't compose and construct images for you.

It is not the kit that makes the picture, better kit enables you to work in conditions where previously you would not get good results due to technical limitations of the camera in difficult conditions.

Now I don't know what you shoot. If you only shoot in good conditions and relatively static subjects then I'd keep the D200. As we have established, it is a very capable camera. If you shoot (or want to shoot) a variety of subjects including low light, some wildlife, aircraft in flight and motor racing and/or where the camera can by way of its better technology make your life easier by not needing to be put on a tripod to get a shot or by using focus tracking to follow a moving subject then either the D300 or D300s will be a good buy. The D300 being older will be cheaper. The D300s has two card slots and will be a bit dearer. Best choice is probably a D300s with a reasonable price tag and best value a D300 with low actuations.

A quick look on the MPB web site shows a D300 with 17000 actuations and described as in excellent+ condition for 284 and a D300s with 15000 actuations in excellent- condition for 464. There is another one with over 112000 actuations for 324.

Mifsuds list a D300 with 12000 actuations at 299. Their D300s are more expensive that I think is reasonable at 399 for 94000 actuations and 499 for 35000 actuations.

There will be a good buy out there for either camera with the D300 being cheaper, and differences in the trade-in for your D200 could make a difference to the actual price too, making what seems to be a higher price lower than a cheaper camera if the trade-in value is better.

The shutter on either model is rated to 150000 actuations and should last longer in practice.
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Old 26-12-2014, 13:32   #24 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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As long as you don't expect the camera to give you better pictures.

It will improve the results you get in terms of reduced noise etc and will enable you to get pictures in situations where the D200 is struggling by way of better high ISO performance, superior focus ability and metering, but it can't compose and construct images for you.

It is not the kit that makes the picture, better kit enables you to work in conditions where previously you would not get good results due to technical limitations of the camera in difficult conditions.

Now I don't know what you shoot. If you only shoot in good conditions and relatively static subjects then I'd keep the D200. As we have established, it is a very capable camera. If you shoot (or want to shoot) a variety of subjects including low light, some wildlife, aircraft in flight and motor racing and/or where the camera can by way of its better technology make your life easier by not needing to be put on a tripod to get a shot or by using focus tracking to follow a moving subject then either the D300 or D300s will be a good buy. The D300 being older will be cheaper. The D300s has two card slots and will be a bit dearer. Best choice is probably a D300s with a reasonable price tag and best value a D300 with low actuations.

A quick look on the MPB web site shows a D300 with 17000 actuations and described as in excellent+ condition for 284 and a D300s with 15000 actuations in excellent- condition for 464. There is another one with over 112000 actuations for 324.

Mifsuds list a D300 with 12000 actuations at 299. Their D300s are more expensive that I think is reasonable at 399 for 94000 actuations and 499 for 35000 actuations.

There will be a good buy out there for either camera with the D300 being cheaper, and differences in the trade-in for your D200 could make a difference to the actual price too, making what seems to be a higher price lower than a cheaper camera if the trade-in value is better.

The shutter on either model is rated to 150000 actuations and should last longer in practice.

I sincerely hope it'll give me better pictures from the notes above!!

"The D200 is, as you say, a very capable camera but it went out of production in 2007 so its technology is several generations old compared ...."

"The D300 / 300s is superior in every respect to the D200"



.....but we split hairs possibly.


Yes, a variety of subjects; all you mention except possibly the motor racing (incl. butterflies during the summer).

It won't compose the pictures for me, no, I know that.

A low shutter count would be nice and what I shall aim for.

I haven't a clue what the shutter-count for the D200 is.......an someone help with a link?

I shall keep the D200 at least for now.





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Old 26-12-2014, 13:55   #25 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

Are the two suppliers mentioned ones you've dealt with before?
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Old 26-12-2014, 18:30   #26 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I've used MPB a few times with no issues at all.

FWIW they have 3 D200s for around the 150 mark with between 50000 and 27000 actuations. Their buying price will obviously be less that the resale price, but it gives you an idea.

http://www.mpbphotographic.co.uk/sea...simple&used=on
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Old 26-12-2014, 23:26   #27 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I've bought from MPB many times - totally reliable.

I'd buy a D90 and put the money saved towards glass.
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Old 26-12-2014, 23:54   #28 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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I'd buy a D90 and put the money saved towards glass.
I disagree. Going from a pro level body (D200) the 300 will be very familiar to him. The D90 is a step DOWN not up..
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Old 27-12-2014, 11:23   #29 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

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I disagree. Going from a pro level body (D200) the 300 will be very familiar to him. The D90 is a step DOWN not up..


That's what I'm hoping (just updating the technology a little).
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Old 27-12-2014, 12:35   #30 (permalink)
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Re: D200/D300/D300s

I can see where -Oy- is coming from. The D90 shares much technology with the D300. 12.3 MP sensor, LCD and I think the processor. It was the TIPA camera of the year in 2009 in the advanced dSLR category. Sadly, there is also some influence from the D60 and the constructions will not be as good as the D300. It is a bit of a hybrid and for me comes just short of the D300, plus the saving will only be around 100, so for me the value for money pick is still the D300 or a D300s with low actuations but without an inflated price tag.

Loyd makes a good point. The D200 and D300 are very close in their layout and controls, so familiarity will make it feel comfortable from the off.
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