[CanonFodder]

Hi all

First post on forums. I'm an absolute amateur and complete newbie to photography so please be nice

I have been looking at various Digital SLR bodies (entry level ones) and have decided to get the Canon 450D. It seems to have everything I would want and at a reasonable price. I went to a shop the other day and had a play with a few and this one felt great to me.

So I will be looking to get that body soon, and it comes with an EF-S 18-55mm IS f/3.5-5.6 non USM Lens Kit.

I am really looking to take pictures of people and maybe some scenery. I had a quick play with the following lens:

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

which gave me amazing results in terms of blur effect which is what I love. However it seems if I want that same kind of effect in a lens capable of zooming I will have to pay almost £1,000 for it? Is that right or am I looking in the wrong place? Will the bundled lens give me good results for the kind of photo's I'm after (the 3.5 aperture obviously won't allow for as much blur as the 1.8 I know)?

I am working on a budget which I know is a massive constraint but I am so unsure about lenses. Is there one that someone could recommend which isn't really expensive or am I wishing for too much?

I hope that kind of makes sense, sorry if not!

Thanks in advance!

[Dabhand16]

Welcome to PIxalo CanonFodder

you are quite right in thinking that you need a wide aperture for the effect you are looking for. f1.8 or f2.8. The 50mm f1.8 is great value, and as you have found, the fast zooms are expesive. You could consider a used lens or create the effect in a photo editor. Nikon do an f1.8 85 mm that is also great value, but I don't know if Canon have an equivalent.

A Canon user will be able to advise better.

[brian wright22]

Welcome to Pixalo.
Canon version is the Canon EF 85mm f1.8 USM Lens
with a typical new price £ 260-£335 plenty of dealers on e-bay.£ 299 from Warehouse Express
you may be able to locate a second hand one though.Best of luck.

Or there is this on the Canon auction site 60mm f 2.8. These are refurbished full warrantied for 12 months and you just bid the maximum that you want to pay and hope you win it.Here's the link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Canon-Outlet-E...d=p3911.c0.m14

Currently its at £150.
Brian

[Sonsey]

Hi CF, welcome to Pixalo

There are several ways you could go depending on what your limited budget is, perhaps you could post back telling us how much your willing to stretch to.

If portraits are going to make up a good part of your photography then the 50 1.8 is your best bet on a tight budget, as you know the plastic build quality isn't great but it'll give you the best image quality of any lens you'll be able to afford for a while. Price £70 new imported, £60'ish 2nd hand.

You also mention that you'd like a fast zoom as well as wanting to take scenery shots. There are reasonably priced short zooms in the f/2.8 bracket that may interest you, namely the Tamron 28-75 XR DI and the Sigma 24-70 EX DG. I own the Tamron myself and can personally recommend it but I think you'd probably get better use from the Sigma (which also gets good reviews) as it goes a bit wider. If you think you would prefer one of these over the 18-55 IS kit lens then you could always purchase the "body only" camera (no lens included) and put the money saved towards a different lens. Prices £240-320 new imported, £180-250'ish 2nd hand.

If your looking for a longer fast zoom lens then this is where the price really starts to go up as you've already found out, but there are still some relative bargains to be had if you stray off the Canon path so to speak. The Sigma EX DG HSM is certainly one of these, and it can also be used with a 1.4x or 2x t-con to add extra reach (but loosing 1 or 2 stops respectively). Price £500 new imported, maybe £400'ish 2nd hand.

The 2nd hand market is well worth investigating as many owners treat their camera gear like one of their children, but as always with any type of 2nd hand gear make sure you do your research and get as many example shots taken with and of the item your wanting to buy.

I hope this helps a little... welcome to the wonderful (and expensive ) world of photography!.

http://www.pixalo.com/community/shot...ots-21276.html
http://www.pixalo.com/community/shot...ots-21562.html

[CanonFodder]

Thank you all so much for your responses.

I've had a chance to read through them (a couple of times now).

I think I need a little help in understanding the lenses before I choose one. I understand that the 50 1.8 lens does not zoom at all(?) - and someone recommended an 85 1.8 - however can I safely assume that does not zoom either?

Sonsey - I am not sure what 'fast zoom' means exactly - I know that I like the low aperture of 1.8 or 2.8, and that I would like to not have to walk towards/away from my subject. I'm certainly not looking for a huge zoom range so I think one of the ones you recommended (Tamron 28-75) would be fine for me. I must be looking in the wrong places because that lens seems to be about £300 everywhere I look (as you asked what my rough budget was, this would be absolute maximum for a lens at this time, would much prefer to spend £200-£250). And the body only seems to be about £450 everywhere I look as well.

Definitely not opposed to getting a 2nd hand lens, although no idea where to start looking (other than eBay).

Again, I hope that makes sense and would very much appreciate some more pointers before I part with all my cash!

Thanks everyone again for the help and warm welcome

[brian wright22]

Yes Canonfodder the 85mm does not zoom.
Unfortunately if you require a zoom lens then the Canon 17-85 f3.5-f4.5 is very good but does cost more and if you want a large (ie f2.8 aperture) zoom lens then you are in mega ££££s. although they are available from time to time from Canon UK on the auction site I mentioned above (the 17-85mm that is).
Brian

[CanonFodder]

Thanks Brian

I think you've confirmed what I thought - that if I want an aperture of 2.8 or lower with even a small amount of zoom, I am simply looking at lots of cash (£300+)?

So I guess I need to think about if the bundled lens will give me the shots I want for now until I can stretch to a better lens. So I think the defining question would be...would an 18-55mm 3.5-5.6 give me a nice blurred effect? I guess what I could do is buy the 450D with the bundled lens, and then get the 55 1.8 for the very blurred photo's since that lens is only about £80...?

[Sonsey]

Originally Posted by CanonFodder

Sonsey - I am not sure what 'fast zoom' means exactly - I know that I like the low aperture of 1.8 or 2.8, and that I would like to not have to walk towards/away from my subject.

Sorry CF I forgot your a bit new to all this, "fast zoom" is just a way of describing a zoom lens with a large aperture (e.g f/2.8), more of a nickname rather than anything technical. As you don't want to move around too much, a zoom is indeed what your looking for.

Originally Posted by CanonFodder

I'm certainly not looking for a huge zoom range so I think one of the ones you recommended (Tamron 28-75) would be fine for me. I must be looking in the wrong places because that lens seems to be about £300 everywhere I look (as you asked what my rough budget was, this would be absolute maximum for a lens at this time, would much prefer to spend £200-£250). And the body only seems to be about £450 everywhere I look as well.

As your new to all this my advice would be to pop into your local camera store and have a look through a camera with a similar range zoom lens attached (28-75mm). This will at least give you an idea of what to expect when you get one, you should then be able to tell if 28mm would be wide enough or 70mm long enough for what you want.

The prices I gave were imported prices (e.g. USA, Hong Kong) to help try and save you some money, online retailers like Onestop-digital can offer a decent saving over UK prices and are certainly worth a look, I along with many others here have used them without issue. One thing to look for though is warranty issues, most lenses carry an international warranty but most cameras do not and thus would require being sent back to the country you purchased it from if it developed a problem. Certainly something you'd need to check before ordering.

Here's a link to the Tamron lens at Onestop if your interested.

Originally Posted by CanonFodder

Definitely not opposed to getting a 2nd hand lens, although no idea where to start looking (other than eBay).

Ebay is the main place, with all it's pros and cons as usual. Other than that you could always try the Pixalo photography classified adverts and see if any members are selling something to interest you, if not you could always post up a wanted thread.

[brian wright22]

If you are thinking of the 450D with the 17-55 IS lins have a look at this link to the Canon_uk site through e-bay.The IS (Image stabiliser) will give you a 3-4 stop shutter/aperture saving giving you a sharper shot which may be spoilt by hand shake.
Canon Outlet: EOS 450D + 18-55 IS (Refurbished) on eBay (end time 23-Sep-09 08:14:16 BST)

Don't forget on this e-bay shop site you will get the full Canon UK 12 month warranty on these demo / returned items.

[CanonFodder]

Thanks again guys.

That Canon Outlet on eBay looks really good, I might get the body with lens from there, much cheaper!

In regards to the lenses again - I thought I had it cracked as I thought that 17-55 meant literally that the zoom was in some way 17-55, and 28-70 etc. Now I realise that the first number is wide and 2nd is long?

So if a lens has 1 number does that mean it is simply that length and no zoom, and if it has 2 numbers (17-55) then it is able to zoom in and there is some kind of maths/equation in which those 2 numbers end up with some kind of zoom range?

So sorry for what must seem like complete idiotic questions!

[Whipspeed]

That's right, if it has just one number, ie the 50mm f1.8, which is a cracking lens that I use for most of my portrait work it doesn't zoom and is called a prime lens. If it has 2 numbers, like the 17-18mm, it is a zoom lens.
The length of zoom really depends upon what you want to photograph. My main business is sports photography, in particular cycling, so I tend to use a 70-200mm f2.8 as I need a wide apeture to keep the shutter fast and a good length to zoom right in. I also use a 100-400mm for Rugby and that gets you right across the pitch.
For people & scenery, as a starter, the 17-85mm is a good lens and would be ideal for those subjects, for taking portrait shots, using the zoom at 35mm or 50mm gives a natural look, if you go too wide, you make their faces look very odd. The best thing would be to go to your local camera shop and ask to try. I don't know where you are, but Jacobs are very helpful.
Don't worry about any questions, they are almost never daft and are how we all learn.

[CanonFodder]

Thank you!

Another quick question - do I need anything other than the camera and a lens? I see a lot of filters etc but am not sure what they do and if I need one?

[Dookie]

Wow CanonFodder, I think you have gotten a lot of really good advice here from all the people. I love to know what you will end up deciding on and then see some awesome pictures from you posted on here. For starter though I really think that one or two of the lenses recommended here as well as you camera body would be a great start. A tripod and a CPL would be nice if you are doing landscapes and such. Best wishes to you - happy shopping and shooting.

[Whipspeed]

You'll probably not need them straight away, but I would get a uv or skylight filter just to keep on the end of your lens as it protects it from dust and grit.

[CanonFodder]

Thanks to all of you - the responses I've got here will definitely help me out when buying lenses.

I think I've decided on the Canon 450D (although my Dad showed me the Lumix G1 he bought the other day and that looked pretty smart... ).

And I'll stick with the bundled lens and purchase the Canon f/1.8 50mm Prime lens straight away.

Then I think I will get this:

Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR Di II LD Aspherical Canon: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

although does it matter than it is not image stabilized?

Thanks so much again!

[brian wright22]

Originally Posted by CanonFodder

Thanks to all of you - the responses I've got here will definitely help me out when buying lenses.

I think I've decided on the Canon 450D (although my Dad showed me the Lumix G1 he bought the other day and that looked pretty smart... ).

And I'll stick with the bundled lens and purchase the Canon f/1.8 50mm Prime lens straight away.

Then I think I will get this:

Tamron AF 17-50mm F2.8 XR Di II LD Aspherical Canon: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

although does it matter than it is not image stabilized?

Thanks so much again!

Stabilised, probably not quite such an issue with the maximum of 50mm and also a nice wide maximum aperture of f2.8.
Brian