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Old 11-12-2006, 23:59   #1 (permalink)
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Red face NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Hello everybody,

I have just ordered a Canon EOS 30D for my husband. I still have some spare money and I would like to buy a couple of very good quality lenses for the camera. Unfortunately, I have no idea about lenses. All I know is that EF lenses are more compatible than EF-S lenses. So I would like to know what kind of lens I would need to complete the Christmas present for my husband.


" % of type of photography-
--- Landscape - 25%
--- Portrait indoors - 25%
--- Portrait outdoors – 10%
--- Macro -30%
--- Fast sports photography -? (once only – Formula 1, but it is not his usual type, I think).
--- Wildlife photography -10% "


I probably will not have money for all the necessary lenses , but at least I would like to get him a very good lens for portrait indoors so that he can take pictures of the family this Christmas and one very good lens for landscapes/dramatic skies. Perhaps –if I can still afford it- I would also like to get him an excellent macro lens.

I prefer getting less lenses, but better quality ones.

Could you please help me?


Many thanks and all the best,

Amarillaa
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Old 12-12-2006, 04:08   #2 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

heres a link that might help you
Canon Lenses

and here

EOS (SLR) Camera Systems - Standard & Medium Telephoto - Canon USA Consumer Products
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Old 12-12-2006, 17:05   #3 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Thank you very much for the links, j. Sotelo.

I have been reading about different lenses for a while now.

I started by looking for information on macro lenses. It seems that the best lens is the Canon EF 180mm f3.5L Macro USM. I think that given the price of this lens, I should leave my husband buy a macro lens in the future, as it is his favourite type of photography and I would like to get him a lens that he can use to take pictures of the family during Christmas.

However, for future reference, I would like to know your opinion on the following review I found:
Good lens (Canon EF 180mm f3.5L Macro USM) but better options exist. Especially in the Canon line up. Buy the 70-200 F/2.8L at similar price or F/2.8L IS at a bit more, and get a few extension tube (you can get a set of 3 Kenko extension tube for around $170 at 12mm, 20mm and 36mm), you will get a fantastic zoom telephoto lens and a far more versatile package. With the 70-200mm zoom lens, you get all the focal length not just the 180mm. If macro is desired choose an extension tube or any combination of extension tubes, you get so much more choices in focus distance and magnification factor combinations, it's mind boggling. If you go with the IS 70-200mm lens, you get the benefit of the image stablizing when taking Macro as well to reduce the camera shake effect. The combination of the 70-200mm family with a set of extension tubes are a far better choice if local focal length macro photography is wanted.

Would a 70-200 F/2.8L (IS) be better than the EF 180mm f3.5L Macro USM for macro pictures. Would my husband be killing two birds with the one stone if he were to buy a 70-200 F/2.8L (IS) for macro and “telephoto” ?


Then I started looking for good lenses for indoor portraits, as I presume that macro lenses are not the best choice for indoors portraits… (right? )

However, I have stumbled upon a “walk-around” lens, the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM, that seems interesting. I read that the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM is also good for indoor portraits. Now I am completely confused . Should I buy a lens for each type of photography or go for a more versatile lens? I may have to read a “Buying a digital cameras for dummies” to be able to get the present ready...

My main priority is to get my husband:
1) Very good quality lenses to ensure that my choice will please him.
2) Get him enough lenses for him to be able to play around with the 30D at
Christmas, i.e. indoor portrait and landscapes/dramatic skies.


Oh, gosh, there is so much more to photography than meets the eye!!! Buying a camera as a present is turning out to be an extremely time consuming hobby of mine…

I must get some work done now.

Thank you for your patience with my very basic questions.

All the best,

Amarillaa
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Old 12-12-2006, 18:42   #4 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Hi Amarillaa,

My advice would be to not limit yourself to just Canon lenses, both Sigma and Tamron both make some excellent lenses that I'm sure your (extreamily lucky ) hubby would be happy to use.

The lenses you mention above, while being excellent professional lenses, are also very expensive. I mention this only because after reading your other thread about which camera to get I noticed your budget was about £1200, now that your left with £400-500
after buying the 30D these lenses you've mentioned are vastly over budget. Your husband seems to enjoy Landscape, Indoor Portrait and Macro photography the most so I'm guessing you'll want to cover these if possible...

One lens which most Canon owners flirt with getting is the Canon EF 50 mm f/1.8II (link below), the reason's being is that it's sharp as a tack, great in low light and cheap as chips at around £60-70, build quality isn't the best as it's a plastic lens but many users still love it especially because of the price... I'm thinking it'd make a great indoor portrait lens.
Canon page - Canon UK - EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Pixalo reviews - http://www.pixalo.com/reviews/showpr...oduct/83/cat/6

On the landscape side of things there are many to choose from, if you bought the 30D "kit" then it will allready have the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 which is a basic wide angle lens that will get him started, but possibly not up to the quality I think you want your husband to have. If you bought the camera "body only" then it will not come with this lens so he'll have to get one... One to look at is the EF 17-40mm f/4.0L (the red "L" denotes Canon's professional series of lenses), it is a lens that alot of landscape photographer's swear by and it also one of the cheapest ways into getting L glass, cheap being a relative term as it still costs around the £500 mark (I believe Canon are doing a £70 cashback on this lens though)
Canon page - Canon UK - EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM
Pixalo reviews - http://www.pixalo.com/reviews/showpr...oduct/14/cat/5

For Macro photography all the major players currently make great lenses, the main reason the Canon EF 180 mm f/3.5L Macro USM costs so much is that it's the longest macro lens Canon currently make giving the greatest working distance. Alot of macro users normally go for a lens around 100mm as it often gives the best price/performance ratio, in this range the Canon EF 100mm f/2.8, Sigma 105mm f/2.8 and Tamron 90mm f/2.8 are all highly regarded. If you want a greater working distance but don't want to pay the high price of the Canon 180mm f/3.5L then I would reccommend looking at the Sigma 150mm f/2.8 and the Sigma 180mm f/3.5. Review's I have read say they compare very favouribly against the Canon models with only autofocus speed letting the side down a little, but since most photographers choose to use manual focus when shooting macro it normally isn't much of a big deal.

Don't forget to have a look in our Equipment Reviews section of the forum for user review's of many of the lenses I mentioned aswell as many others you may want to ask about aswell.
http://www.pixalo.com/reviews/

Lastly, I'm not sure where you intend to purchase the lenses but buying online from UK sites will often get you some good savings over buying from Jessops for example, and importing from Japan or the US can save you even more.

Here's a couple of good sites that many member's have happily used before to have a look at, I'm sure our member's will give you some more if you choose to buy online.

Warehouse Express - Photographic Equipment, Digital Cameras, Lenses and Accessories - Localy based with good prices and great service.

Onestop Digital - Asian based site with excellent prices, and they will refund any import charges you might receive, delivery takes about a week but email them before hand to make sure they have stock.

Hope this helps you a bit.
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Regards,
Iain.
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Old 12-12-2006, 20:05   #5 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

This might help http://www.pixalo.com/community/gene...ther-7423.html
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Old 12-12-2006, 20:10   #6 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Given what you say regards % usage, I would say the ef 100 usm macro was your best bet.
I have had one of these and it was my most used optic.
Super sharp, optically fast, good for portraits (well a bit too sharp) fast af for a macro and relatively in-expensive.

Just my thoughts.
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Old 12-12-2006, 22:07   #7 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

If you can afford it the 24-70mm and the 100mm macro.

The 24-70 gives you a great portrait lens, it's reasonably wide for landscapes (when you factor in the crop factor). The 100mm macro is simply class.

That will cover 90% of what your looking for except outdoor wildlife. Realistically you need something longer for that, consider the 100-400mm from Canon.
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Old 12-12-2006, 22:33   #8 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

I think you are over complicating this a bit for yourself. You have bought your husband a great camera that he will be very pleased with.

You stated:

My main priority is to get my husband:
1) Very good quality lenses to ensure that my choice will please him.
2) Get him enough lenses for him to be able to play around with the 30D at
Christmas, i.e. indoor portrait and landscapes/dramatic skies.


My advice would be to buy the EF 17-40mm f/4.0L, this is a real quality lens and will cover very sharp indoor work and is one of the best for Landscapes.

You can get some good deals on this at the moment, I also have a Canon cashback voucher booklet that gets you £70 back which must be used before 1st Jan 07. I can post this to you (or anyone else on site that will use it) if you like. My wife thinks I've bought enough lenses this year

As for the macro work, if this is what he loves the most, let him get used to the camera over christmas then he can pick the lens himself. As you will have noticed there are many "confusing" combinations for Macro work which is best invesigated over time. (you don't want to buy him the wrong one)

My next lens will be a Macro and I have been reading about them trying to decide for about 2 months

The lenses will (should) last a lot longer than the camera so it's worth getting right

Hope this helps, good luck

PM me if you would like the voucher

Cotter
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Old 13-12-2006, 11:33   #9 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

I would agree 100% with the wise words that cotter has written above. The 17-40L is a great lens at a great price and with the cashback offer it is the right time to buy. It will give your lucky husband something to use at Christmas and in the future while allowing him the flexibility to chose what he wants most from the other options posted in this thread.

For me I see this as the perfect solution and a win-win situation for you
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Old 13-12-2006, 15:26   #10 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

The 17~40 will blow your budget and not really give you a good wide angle view. I have a 17~35 for my 10d and I have to change over to my old Coolpix or an Olympus E-20 with their wide adaptors for really wide shots. If you want to go that route, an I agree that wide sounds good for his needs, why not the 10~22 which will give him a really useful range for landscape and interiors?

I guess you're learning that there are no simple answers to this one...

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Old 13-12-2006, 20:08   #11 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sejanus View Post
The 17~40 will blow your budget and not really give you a good wide angle view. I have a 17~35 for my 10d and I have to change over to my old Coolpix or an Olympus E-20 with their wide adaptors for really wide shots. If you want to go that route, an I agree that wide sounds good for his needs, why not the 10~22 which will give him a really useful range for landscape and interiors?

I guess you're learning that there are no simple answers to this one...

What
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Old 13-12-2006, 20:14   #12 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Different interpretations of wide angle here. 17mm is wide angle, but obviously nowhere near the 10mm end of the lens suggested. It's all according to how wide you want to go. I know when I was looking at the difference between the 10-20mm & 12-24mm lenses, that the extra 2mm at the wide end gave an extra 10 degree view

Anyway I've taken this off topic slightly.....for most people 17mm is wide enough.....for others , including myself I've gone that stage further with a 10mm-20mm.
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Old 13-12-2006, 20:45   #13 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Don't forget that the wider you go the more distortion you add as well
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Old 13-12-2006, 22:28   #14 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Hello all,

I love this place. Thank you for your invaluable responses, your good advice, and your patience with me.

My husband is not at home. I have been reading about lenses for the last two hours. And I am starting to understand (differences between zooms and primes, “fs”, “mms”, and what different types of lenses are used for. Now that everything is falling into place I no longer feel frustrated, but genuinely interested. I still have to get my head around “ISO speed”, “IMO”, “RAW”, etc. but I am looking forward to it! ).

I have read the Pixalo lens reviews. I search on the net. I have not yet decided what lenses I am going to get except for the EF 50 mm f/1, as Sonsey recommended.

I am also interested in the 24-70mm, as it seems to be “The” Wedding lens and therefore ideal for the many family/friend events that my husband covers.Then I stumbled across the 24-105mm (not yet reviewed here). Unfortunately it has f/4, rather than f/2 like the 24-70, but I also read that the f/4 is “compensated by image stabilization” (this is beyond my limited understanding ). I was wondering if the 24-105 would also have the same quality for Weddings (it is actually a lighter lens) and perhaps could also be used as an all-round lens and the expensive 70-200mm can then wait (Sorry if what I am talking about is nonsense )… Do you have any experience with the 24-105? Would you recommend it over the 24-70?

I have read in two other sites that an EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 is a very good all-round lens. (I could not find a Pixalo review of this lens either). Unfortunately is an EFS lens, but If I bought a 17-55, perhaps the 17-40 would no longer be necessary for landscapes and the 17-55 has f2.8 and not just f4 like the 17-40mm (What if the day is cloudy?). Any thoughts? What lens gives the best quality results?

I have also stumbled across a 18-200 (Nikon). It seems a very interesting lens, but it cannot be used for Canon, can it?

I think that the 10-22mm would also be a great choice for my husband’s dramatic skies/landscapes. However, it is EFS and not cheap. Is there an EF lens similar to this one that will not cost me a divorce?

A new concern of mine is: what accessories are a must? The 30D comes with an on-camera flash, but I read that it can cast shadows and ruin pictures. Should I get hubby a flash? What about cleaning kits and protection filters…?

By the way, I got the 30D “body only”.

Can you please help me? Your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks a million to you all,
Amarillaa
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Old 14-12-2006, 00:46   #15 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

HI Amarillaa,

Just one thing, if your hubby fails to appreciate the amount of work you are putting into getting him equipped properly, divorce him. I'll marry you :o)

Shucks, I'm already married to a wonderful lady.... ok, well, you get my sentiments anyway :o)

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 14-12-2006, 15:00   #16 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

The 24-70L and 24-105L are about £900 and £700 pounds, though both are excellent, excellent lenses. There is a slight catch you may not be aware of. The 30D, like every other DSLR that doesn't cost almost £2000, has a senosr thats smaller than a 35mm film frame. This is called the crop effect. It has the effect that picture taken with a crop camera appear to have been taken with a longer lens, in the case of the 30D, 1.6 times longer. So 24mm on a 30D looks like 38mm on a film camera. 38mm is not wide enough for landscapes.

The digital solution is to go to 17mm (which looks like 28mm on a film camera) or wider. In the old films days, 24/28mm was a decent mm for landscape.
To cut a badly worded explanation short, your husband would probably want something wider than 24mm.

The numbers after the decimal place in the f numbers are important too (I noticed you used f1 and f2) Canon make 3 50mm lens with f numbers less than 2. (there is a near-mythical 4th one as well) The 24-70 is f2.8. Thats only 1 f-stop faster then f4. That one stop is still huge, but f2.0 is another f-stop faster again.
The 24-105L has Image Stabilization (IS). When you hold a camera, no matter how good you are, your hands and body will shake. If the shutter is open long enough, that camera shake will give blurry pictures. IS is some electronic trickery inside the lens that counteracts that camera shake, allowing you to get away with holding the camera with much longer shutter speeds than normal. Canon's claim is up to 3 full f-stops.
That could easily wip out the 24-70's 1 f-stop advantage, making the 24-105 act like an f2.0 or even f1.4 in terms of shutter speed. It is apparantly a great technology. Two caveats, if the subject (such as a person) moves, they will still look blurry (so it's not as good when taking pictures of people) and it still an f/4 lens, and will only be able to blur the background (bokeh) like an f/4 lens. A "real" f1.4 or f2.0 lens would blur the background a lot more.

Lens are all about compromise. There is no perfect lens. The more you make one aspact of the lens better, the more that means you have to make other bits worse, or start charging thousands for it. You can have really fast lens, but then, it can't zoom very far, if at all. Nobody makes a zoom lens faster then f2.8, for example. Anyting faster than that can only have 1 focal length. You can make very big focal ranges (ala the 18-200) but if it's not very very slow, it will be huge, or it's image quality will have to suffer.
Whatever lens you buy will be a compromise. It's just a case of finding the right one that suites your purposes and how you will use the camera.
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Old 14-12-2006, 20:17   #17 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Wow… This is a real science…

Thank you very much for all your detailed responses and interesting opinions.


I have been researching further today and considering the cons and pros of your comments and the reviews I read.

Currently my main constrictions are:

Money: I have come to the conclusion that I will have to stretch my initial budget.

Time: I have to order tonight because time is ticking away and we will travel for Christmas.

Macro is my husband’s first love, so I do not want to make any decision in that regard. He will choose whatever he considers best. I suspect that he’ll be willing to “over-spend” on this type of photography –to the detriment of other types. So, at the moment I have decided to partially cover those “other areas” the best I can. This is what I have decided so far:

1) 24-105 as a general purpose (“light”) lens (for travelling/holidays, etc seems to be ideal).
2) 17/40 for wider angle, landscapes, and indoors. I presume that a wider angle (EFS 10-22 or Sigma 12-24) may be a better choice for landscapes, but I do not know whether my husband will like the idea of EFS lenses or non-Canon lenses, I rather not invest in those lense. Another advantage is the money back voucher that Canon offers at the moment for the 17/40.
3) EF 50mm f/1.8II. I am aware now (thanks to you ) that for a cropped dSLR a 35mm would be a more reasonable choice, but I will running out of money after the 27-105 and the 17/40; and the EF 50mm f/1.8II seems to be a nice lens to have and a good compromise price-wise.

My head is spinning , but I have learned a lot. I have nearly made my mind up, so please scream if I got it all wrong or if another combination seems to be far more reasonable (for instance, I am not yet very sure whether a 70-200 would be a better choice than the 24-105; but perhaps it is better if I leave the telephoto choice to my husband, as I do not think he’ll be needing a telephoto for family Christmas pictures… but then again, I know nothing…)

What about flash, polarizing filters, UV(O) filters, cleaning kits, and other accessories? Are they a must at the moment?

I am very grateful to you all. THANK YOU

All the best,
Amarilla
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Old 14-12-2006, 21:00   #18 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Well your nearly there..... the lenses you have picked will be very good for your husbands requirements. This is an amazing start for someones first DSLR

As for the flash I would leave that till after Christmas, the one on the camera will be perfect for shots over the festive period. Your husband will no doubt want a dedicated flash gun, but if macro is his thing, then he will probably want a macrolite gun, so my advice would be to leave this choice to him.

As for the filters they are an absolute MUST for every lens. I personally use Skylight on my lenses (UV on my landscape lens) the filters are more for protection. You will be paying a lot of money for lenses, the last thing you need is a scratch on them

I cannot stress their importance enough. I never take mine off my lenses. They only cost about £20.00 max

After all your hard work you must show your husband all your threads on Pixalo!! coz we want to see his photos

Good luck

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Old 14-12-2006, 21:14   #19 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Whew! Thank you very much for your reassuring answer, Cotter.

I shall take take your advice about Skylight filters into account.

It seems that I am finally on the right track

Cheers!
Amarilla
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Old 18-12-2006, 14:30   #20 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Amarillaa, you have done an amazing job of finding out as much as you possibly can to make the right decisions. There truly is nothing more your husband could ask. I am sure he is going to absolutely delighted with all that you have bought / will buy for him and I am looking forward to seeing him on Pixalo on 26th December as our latest member :o)

Have a great Christmas,

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Old 27-12-2006, 01:30   #21 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

I am very new here so please excuse my naivete. I think the lady has made an excellent choice with the lenses she has chosen prompted by good advice.
However I do not agree that filters are a must for lenses. They can introduce some strange effects. I have three very good Canon lenses, including one of the lenses chosen, and I would not dream of putting a filter on any of them.
I believe that there is some sort of study going on now, it may have happened already, regarding the effect of filters on lenses. I also believe that the results of this study will be a new breed of filter being introduced.
Rather than use filters may I suggest that the lens hood may be used ?
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Old 27-12-2006, 09:33   #22 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Expensive lenses should be protected from acccidental damage in my opinion and while a lens hood will offer a small degree of protection it will not protect against debris in the air, grit, sand, mud, sea spray etc and these are all likely elements that any photographer could reasonibly expect to come into contact with.

Using poor quality filters will reduce the quality of the final image but using high grade, top quality filters from recognised sources have for years been recommended and has very little if any (noticible) affect on the final picture quality.

It all depends on what level of photography you are at, if you can see any difference in your results when using a cheap or expensive filter and ultimately if you can afford to replace you lenses should they become damaged or scratched.

EDIT I also replied to your message that you sent using the contact us form, but the email reply bounced...
"A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:"
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Old 27-12-2006, 12:32   #23 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Could not agree with you more Steve. However I was really replying to the post by cotter in which he said that the filters would cost £20.00 max. He is obviously not talking about the same quality filters as you. Both the 17-40 and 24-105 use 77mm filters and these are not available, at least not high quality, for that amount.
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Old 30-12-2006, 01:16   #24 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonitis View Post
I am very new here so please excuse my naivete. I think the lady has made an excellent choice with the lenses she has chosen prompted by good advice.
However I do not agree that filters are a must for lenses. They can introduce some strange effects. I have three very good Canon lenses, including one of the lenses chosen, and I would not dream of putting a filter on any of them.
I believe that there is some sort of study going on now, it may have happened already, regarding the effect of filters on lenses. I also believe that the results of this study will be a new breed of filter being introduced.
Rather than use filters may I suggest that the lens hood may be used ?
Can't wait to see the study would also be very intrested in seeing images with the "strange effects" caused by filters. Yes, I agree it can happen, but how often do you look through your shots and say "dam those filters have spoiled all my photos again"

If you have read through the thread I am giving advice to a lady who is spending a lot of money on a gift for a man who has never owned a DSLR, the last thing he needs is scatched lenses.

Okay I forgot the larger size would affect the cost, but I would still be able to protect them with good quality filters for £30-40

or you could use a lens hood till the study tells us what to do

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Old 30-12-2006, 16:13   #25 (permalink)
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Re: NO IDEA whatsoever about lenses for 30D. Could you please help me?

Well I have to concede you may be right cotter. It now seems obvious to me that it is ideal to spend approx. £1500.00 on two L lenses and then stick cheap bits of glass in front of them. This can only improve the performance of the lenses.
"Using poor quality filters will reduce the quality of the final image but using high grade, top quality filters from recognised sources have for years been recommended and has very little if any (noticible) affect on the final picture quality."
The above quote is from the post by Steve. Please note he does not say good he says high grade, top quality.
It would be foolish of me to start or get into a row on my seventh post here. As you have agreed, in the first paragraph of your post, that strange effects can be caused by filters there is little else to say about it. I never look at any of my shots and think the filters have spoiled them because I don`t use filters ! Any bad shots are operator error.
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