Oh no! not again!

Soupdragon · 20-10-2006, 19:50

I am sure this has been debated many a time but, is anyone facing the same dilemma as me.
I can't make up my mind between the 400D and D80.
The D80 is drop dead sexy but pound for pixel the 400D knocks it into a cocked hat.
Any body have an opinion on this.

***Steve*** · 20-10-2006, 20:39

I'd like to hear why and how you feel that "pound for pixel the 400D knocks it into a cocked hat." as thats a very broad and general statement. What facts/features are you basing it on?

Foxesbrew · 20-10-2006, 23:02

I cant see what sexy has to do with cameras,is this some kind of fettish, or just the wrong use of aword?

sillyconguru · 21-10-2006, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

I'd like to hear why and how you feel that "pound for pixel the 400D knocks it into a cocked hat." as thats a very broad and general statement. What facts/features are you basing it on?

Probably the fact that the 400D is about £100 cheaper than the D80.

However, the D80 has features that the 400D hasn't (e.g. 2 external LCDs and spot metering) so just comparing them on price isn't a wise idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxesbrew

I cant see what sexy has to do with cameras,is this some kind of fettish, or just the wrong use of aword?

All Nikon cameras are sexy.

Soupdragon · 21-10-2006, 09:57

When I say sexy I mean general cosmetic appeal, I looked at the back of the 400D and the display looks like it's stuck on top of the old 350D.
I handled a 400D in the shop and operating the buttons on the left I found myself pushing the lcd surround.
Reviews and sample images suggest for most uses there is very little difference in final image quality, that said, I would like to see how much info is ditched because of the NEF files being compressed. This probably accounts for the D80 loosing out on dynamic range.
The other important thing (to me) the D80 lacks is true MLU, even one embedded in a custom function is better than nothing.
That said, I am sure the Nikon engineers have checked the decaying sine time and decided .4 of a second is long enough for practical purposes.

Soupdragon · 21-10-2006, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxesbrew

I cant see what sexy has to do with cameras,is this some kind of fettish, or just the wrong use of aword?

If this is not too much of a personal question, where in West Sussex are you?
I live near Emsworth just west of Chichester.

***Dave*** · 21-10-2006, 11:13

Both cameras are incredible value for money & most people would be happy with either. I expect most people will either stick to the brand they already use, or go on how each camera feels in their hands. Being a Nikon man I've become used to the layout & feel of this brand, so when I tried the 5D vs the D200, I felt more at home with the latter. I'm sure a Canon person would have gone for the former.

Foxesbrew · 21-10-2006, 12:07

Cosmetic appeal i can understand,functionality is most important to me .i am very happy with my NIKON d 50.
I live near Midhurst.

Soupdragon · 21-10-2006, 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxesbrew

Cosmetic appeal i can understand,functionality is most important to me .i am very happy with my NIKON d 50.
I live near Midhurst.

Midhurst with the duck pond?

Foxesbrew · 21-10-2006, 17:07

Yes near there

asd · 27-11-2006, 23:23

I have canon gear but had a go with a nikon D200 at college. It is very well built and feels a lot more comfortable in the hand compared to canon models. I have not handled the nikon D80, i dont know if it is of similar build to D200. After handling the nikon, the canon models dont feel as well made and dont feel good to hold. (have used 20D,30D,10D,300D, and 350D) If i was starting out again i would go with nikon. A friend of mine has just bought D50 with kit lens and i am very impressed with the quality. I find the 350/400D just too small personally, dont know how the D80 compares to these.

scott

Soupdragon · 28-11-2006, 06:28

On tactility the D80 and D200 are similar with the noticeable difference being weight.
Regarding the D80:
Why-o-why Nikon insist on compressing raw files (which is an oxymoron) is beyond me.
0.4 seconds mirror lock up, what were they thinking?
Not including a real raw converter as part of the package is real penny pinching and will not win them any friends.
Regarding the 400D:
Talk about a rush job on the design front, keep the original body injection moulding but re-core it to accomodate a bigger lcd, nice idea but at the cost of button ergonomics.
An extra 1mm on the grip length, wow! steady on there.
Getting rid of the second LCD was a retrograde step as far as I am concerned, running a big lcd more of the time has got to have shortened the battery life.
And a personal pet hate for someone who has chubby fingers, I find it truly irritating trying to get the cf card out of the camera without bending the door off its hinges.

Rob Barron · 28-11-2006, 14:15

May I suggest you forget completely comparing these two cameras? It is a pointless exercise quite frankly. The 400D and the D80 both take outstanding pictures and both have bags of control and usability so what exactly do you want to define them with? Are you going to be extremely happy no matter which one you buy? Absolutely you are.

So, look to your future needs. Whatever you buy now is likely to be the system you stay with forever or close to it. Once people have bought lenses, they rarely switch systems as it is an expensive business to replace lenses. I am a Canon man, I think Canon lenses are the bees knees. I am sure a Nikon man thinks exactly the same. Why? Because they both are!

If you want to save some money towards a decent lens, go for the 400D as it will cost less than a D80. Whatever you use to make your decision, it need not be on which camera will take the best pictures. Both of them will take superb shots.

Cheers,
Rob

Soupdragon · 29-11-2006, 06:09

Hmmmm! an interesting opinion but.............

These two cameras sit squarely in the same band between P&S and Prosumer.
They share the same dot count and can both support a vast range of optics.
Cost is always thrown into the equation but, when you realise the 400 is basically the same size as the 350, it becomes obvious I/others will buy a battery grip just to improve the cameras handling.
So, body vs body and using Jessops as a standard source, and with the above borne in mind we see:
Canon 400D + Grip £618, Nikon D80 £542.
The question that is never answered is " how much do I lose through Nikon compressing the raw files?"

***Dave*** · 29-11-2006, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soupdragon

The question that is never answered is " how much do I lose through Nikon compressing the raw files?"

I remember this debate when I had my D70. From memory the main issue was around the impact it had on recovering clipped highlights, ( even though if you could recover there would be considerable noise). At the time it seemed such a acute scenario that could be overcome by the likes of bracketing the shot etc.

I'm assuming this has improved over time ? Also, does this effect the non pro, who will be buying this camera , that much ? Personally I think although not perfect, it has taken in depth tests with graphs & the likes to prove any loss of quality in certain circumstances (eg clip levels of blown highlights), that joe public won't be able to tell the difference IMHO.

What do you reckon ?

20-10-2006, 19:50	#1 (permalink)
Soupdragon Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,091	Oh no! not again! I am sure this has been debated many a time but, is anyone facing the same dilemma as me. I can't make up my mind between the 400D and D80. The D80 is drop dead sexy but pound for pixel the 400D knocks it into a cocked hat. Any body have an opinion on this.

20-10-2006, 20:39	#2 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,158	Re: Oh no! not again! I'd like to hear why and how you feel that "pound for pixel the 400D knocks it into a cocked hat." as thats a very broad and general statement. What facts/features are you basing it on?

20-10-2006, 23:02	#3 (permalink)
Foxesbrew Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: west sussex Posts: 1,131	Re: Oh no! not again! I cant see what sexy has to do with cameras,is this some kind of fettish, or just the wrong use of aword?

21-10-2006, 09:57	#5 (permalink)
Soupdragon Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,091	Re: Oh no! not again! When I say sexy I mean general cosmetic appeal, I looked at the back of the 400D and the display looks like it's stuck on top of the old 350D. I handled a 400D in the shop and operating the buttons on the left I found myself pushing the lcd surround. Reviews and sample images suggest for most uses there is very little difference in final image quality, that said, I would like to see how much info is ditched because of the NEF files being compressed. This probably accounts for the D80 loosing out on dynamic range. The other important thing (to me) the D80 lacks is true MLU, even one embedded in a custom function is better than nothing. That said, I am sure the Nikon engineers have checked the decaying sine time and decided .4 of a second is long enough for practical purposes. __________________ Anyone who thinks it's the photographer and not the camera is deluded.

21-10-2006, 11:13	#7 (permalink)
*Dave* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14,909	Re: Oh no! not again! Both cameras are incredible value for money & most people would be happy with either. I expect most people will either stick to the brand they already use, or go on how each camera feels in their hands. Being a Nikon man I've become used to the layout & feel of this brand, so when I tried the 5D vs the D200, I felt more at home with the latter. I'm sure a Canon person would have gone for the former.

21-10-2006, 12:07	#8 (permalink)
Foxesbrew Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: west sussex Posts: 1,131	Re: Oh no! not again! Cosmetic appeal i can understand,functionality is most important to me .i am very happy with my NIKON d 50. I live near Midhurst.

21-10-2006, 17:07	#10 (permalink)
Foxesbrew Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: west sussex Posts: 1,131	Re: Oh no! not again! Yes near there

27-11-2006, 23:23	#11 (permalink)
asd Getting Comfy Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: BLACKPOOL..capital of fun/s**t Posts: 124	Re: Oh no! not again! I have canon gear but had a go with a nikon D200 at college. It is very well built and feels a lot more comfortable in the hand compared to canon models. I have not handled the nikon D80, i dont know if it is of similar build to D200. After handling the nikon, the canon models dont feel as well made and dont feel good to hold. (have used 20D,30D,10D,300D, and 350D) If i was starting out again i would go with nikon. A friend of mine has just bought D50 with kit lens and i am very impressed with the quality. I find the 350/400D just too small personally, dont know how the D80 compares to these. scott

28-11-2006, 06:28	#12 (permalink)
Soupdragon Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,091	Re: Oh no! not again! On tactility the D80 and D200 are similar with the noticeable difference being weight. Regarding the D80: Why-o-why Nikon insist on compressing raw files (which is an oxymoron) is beyond me. 0.4 seconds mirror lock up, what were they thinking? Not including a real raw converter as part of the package is real penny pinching and will not win them any friends. Regarding the 400D: Talk about a rush job on the design front, keep the original body injection moulding but re-core it to accomodate a bigger lcd, nice idea but at the cost of button ergonomics. An extra 1mm on the grip length, wow! steady on there. Getting rid of the second LCD was a retrograde step as far as I am concerned, running a big lcd more of the time has got to have shortened the battery life. And a personal pet hate for someone who has chubby fingers, I find it truly irritating trying to get the cf card out of the camera without bending the door off its hinges.

28-11-2006, 14:15	#13 (permalink)
Rob Barron Loves the place Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poole, Dorset Posts: 5,204	Re: Oh no! not again! May I suggest you forget completely comparing these two cameras? It is a pointless exercise quite frankly. The 400D and the D80 both take outstanding pictures and both have bags of control and usability so what exactly do you want to define them with? Are you going to be extremely happy no matter which one you buy? Absolutely you are. So, look to your future needs. Whatever you buy now is likely to be the system you stay with forever or close to it. Once people have bought lenses, they rarely switch systems as it is an expensive business to replace lenses. I am a Canon man, I think Canon lenses are the bees knees. I am sure a Nikon man thinks exactly the same. Why? Because they both are! If you want to save some money towards a decent lens, go for the 400D as it will cost less than a D80. Whatever you use to make your decision, it need not be on which camera will take the best pictures. Both of them will take superb shots. Cheers, Rob __________________ Rob Barron robbarron@aol.com If you look down on other people, don't expect them to look up to you!

29-11-2006, 06:09	#14 (permalink)
Soupdragon Forum Regular Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 1,091	Re: Oh no! not again! Hmmmm! an interesting opinion but............. These two cameras sit squarely in the same band between P&S and Prosumer. They share the same dot count and can both support a vast range of optics. Cost is always thrown into the equation but, when you realise the 400 is basically the same size as the 350, it becomes obvious I/others will buy a battery grip just to improve the cameras handling. So, body vs body and using Jessops as a standard source, and with the above borne in mind we see: Canon 400D + Grip £618, Nikon D80 £542. The question that is never answered is " how much do I lose through Nikon compressing the raw files?"