[Kinobe]

Right I've decided to take my photography one step further and decided to start experimenting with full manual.

However I'm doing something wrong I feel. I normally shoot on S or A to which is dependant on the environment or subject I'm shooting.

I switched to full manual and decided to set the aperture/shutter speed and white balance (which is set on auto) to the exact same settings to see if I could replicate the picture I shot in shutter priority. But the picture came out darker?

Shooting in S/A will give me options to change exposure by stops, thats correct yeah? but you as the photographer have to set these. When I first shot in S mode I decided not to change the exposure stop and did the exact same in Full Manual mode but the picture again was all dark.

There must be more settings going on in S/A modes that I'm unaware off?

Any advice and tips on where I'm going wrong is much appreciated. My Kit is as follows :

Nikon D100 + Nikon D70
Nikkor 24-85mm F2.8-4
Sigma 70-200mm F2.8
Nikkor 50mm F1.8

Thanks again

Ed

[Steve]

If you set everything at exactly the same settings and the conditions for the shot were also exactly the same then the two pictures should be identical. From what you are saying the other main variable that you could have missed was the metering type, usually cameras have several different settings depending on the make and model. Average, center weighted or spot metering will all return different setting for the same scene but as you were using the same settings for the same shot then the results should have been the same too.

Can you tell us what the shots where and how you set them up? Subject, time of day, was tripod used etc?

[Fangman]

S And A settings usually use evalutive (the whole screen averaged) or centre weighted ( about the centre circle of 1/3 -1/4 of the screen). In manual it may have settled on spot metering which is the area of the central focus point. If you check by focusing on varying points in the scene that would have filled the view finder you will see the exposure guide vary markedly. You can chose from the menu what type of metering you want - .

[Kinobe]

Originally Posted by Steve

If you set everything at exactly the same settings and the conditions for the shot were also exactly the same then the two pictures should be identical. From what you are saying the other main variable that you could have missed was the metering type, usually cameras have several different settings depending on the make and model. Average, center weighted or spot metering will all return different setting for the same scene but as you were using the same settings for the same shot then the results should have been the same too.

Can you tell us what the shots where and how you set them up? Subject, time of day, was tripod used etc?

Thanks both for your help

I was taking pictures of a bed side table in the exact same conditions. It was mid afternoon, plenty of light with me even turning on two little lamps.

Settings were.....

F4.5
1/100
AB - Auto

I wasn't using a tripod it was handheld but would this make a difference?. I was standing in the same spot.

I will look at these different metering modes, would shooting on A/S modes changes these automatically? or does it just stay on automatic?

Sorry for these nooby questions, but its baffling me a bit as I must be doing something wrong!

Ed

[Steve]

Unless you are using a fixed point to shoot from for comparison then you are introducing human elements that are variable. You may be pointing the camera at what you think is the same point but it could be slightly off and if you have metered off a duller point when on auto, the picture will be darker when in manual.

If you have a tripod, set up the shot again, preferably in a room with say the curtains closed and just room lights on, take the two shots one on manual and one on auto with the same setting and the results should be identical.

I have to wonder what you are hoping to learn from the exercise though?

[Bachs]

I would also review the on-camera histogram (presuming your camera has one) to check exposure until you get the hang of it.
I always shoot manual and still use the histogram, which isn't hundred % accurate but is at least a good guide.

[Steve]

Also are you shooting JPG or RAW? If raw then during the conversion your software could be applying compensations automatically.

[Kinobe]

Originally Posted by Steve

Unless you are using a fixed point to shoot from for comparison then you are introducing human elements that are variable. You may be pointing the camera at what you think is the same point but it could be slightly off and if you have metered off a duller point when on auto, the picture will be darker when in manual.

If you have a tripod, set up the shot again, preferably in a room with say the curtains closed and just room lights on, take the two shots one on manual and one on auto with the same setting and the results should be identical.

I have to wonder what you are hoping to learn from the exercise though?

Arr I c let me explain!

I've been looking at range of indoor event photography exifs of the subject people. One photographer was shooting using the same aperture/shutter speed throughout and once he found the right combination the results were to say the least excellent and consistant. Obviously it depends on the situation/lighting/environment.

The last few times I have shot in manual, pictures have become underexposed compared to shooting on shutter/aperture priority and I'm wanting to experiment with DOF further. I spose I'm just trying to push my photography knowledge/experience further.

I'm shooting on JPG currently. I've heard many advantages of shooting in RAW especially when it comes to exposure. So I might have to give that a go. Is it true that Nikon have released a new version of their raw editing software?

Thanks for the tips and all your help, I think I'll have a go with tripod.

Ed

[Steve]

Ahh I see and understand much more now. In that case may I suggest that to take some more control over your photography that you switch to aperture priority and then let the camera work out the shutter speeds needed to get the correct exposures. This way you can learn how the different apertures affect the depth of field and be creative in using that without needing to worry about under or over exposed shots.

The only other thing you should keep an eye on if you take these steps is your shutter speed, try to keep it at suitably fast settings to keep camera shake at bay or indeed stop motion blur if you don't want it. To maintain shutter speeds you might need to increase your ISO setting depending on the light available. Try to use as low as possible ISO at all times though to keep noise levels at a minimum

Learning manual is a great target but you will get there much quicker if you understand the steps in between. Learn to walk before you run

[Kinobe]

Originally Posted by Steve

Ahh I see and understand much more now. In that case may I suggest that to take some more control over your photography that you switch to aperture priority and then let the camera work out the shutter speeds needed to get the correct exposures. This way you can learn how the different apertures affect the depth of field and be creative in using that without needing to worry about under or over exposed shots.

The only other thing you should keep an eye on if you take these steps is your shutter speed, try to keep it at suitably fast settings to keep camera shake at bay or indeed stop motion blur if you don't want it. To maintain shutter speeds you might need to increase your ISO setting depending on the light available. Try to use as low as possible ISO at all times though to keep noise levels at a minimum

Learning manual is a great target but you will get there much quicker if you understand the steps in between. Learn to walk before you run

Thanks for the reply. I've got the general gist of how DOF works and have had some "okay" results from my understanding. However in photography I find I'm never happy with the shot I produce, there have been instances where I say "the dof could of been slightly shallower" to which I then go out my way to try and achieve this.

When I shoot people on aperture priority I have problems with hand shake as the camera works out the desired shutter speed. Most of the time it will automatically shoot at 1/30 and tbh my hands arn't consitantly steady and the picture imo becomes ruined. However to eliminate this I could use a tripod and remote but I'm going to try and work on my photography stance which includes a breathing technique.

By going to manual I'll be able to experiment shooting people at different apertures whilst upping the shutter speed notches at a time (vice versa) to see what result I get which in turn will allow me to control DOF. Once I have found a setting I feel comfortable at, I could possibly develop my technique and apply this to my shooting environment.

Don't get me wrong okay? I'm not one for being bigheaded/boastful. I'm far from it tbh. But I'm always out there to improve my self and most of all learn.

Thanks again for all your help and advice!

Ed

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Kinobe

When I shoot people on aperture priority I have problems with hand shake as the camera works out the desired shutter speed. Most of the time it will automatically shoot at 1/30 and tbh my hands arn't consitantly steady and the picture imo becomes ruined. However to eliminate this I could use a tripod and remote but I'm going to try and work on my photography stance which includes a breathing technique.

There are three things that directly affect the exposure…your aperture, your shutter speed and the ISO setting. You should be controlling the equipment to use the settings that you want to not the other way around. By factoring in and altering the ISO as well you will probably be able to get the shutter speed that you would like to use with your chosen aperture as well, thus removing camera shake. That’s why I mentioned it earlier in my previous post.

Originally Posted by Kinobe

By going to manual I'll be able to experiment shooting people at different apertures whilst upping the shutter speed notches at a time (vice versa) to see what result I get which in turn will allow me to control DOF. Once I have found a setting I feel comfortable at, I could possibly develop my technique and apply this to my shooting environment.

Sure, trial and error is a good teacher but knowing what the equipment offers in terms of features to allow you to attain your goals is also important. I can see you understand the relationship between shutter speed and aperture but without factoring in ISO to give you the space and facility to maintain minimum shutter speeds, then no amount of playing will return the results that you want consistently. You will either get underexposed/overexposed as you alter the settings independently or blurred results due to slow shutter speeds; these are the complaints that you opened the thread with are they not?

Originally Posted by Kinobe

Don't get me wrong okay? I'm not one for being bigheaded/boastful. I'm far from it tbh. But I'm always out there to improve my self and most of all learn.

Thanks again for all your help and advice!

Ed

Aren’t we all out to learn and improve, that’s why this site was set up

[Kinobe]

Originally Posted by Steve

There are three things that directly affect the exposure…your aperture, your shutter speed and the ISO setting. You should be controlling the equipment to use the settings that you want to not the other way around. By factoring in and altering the ISO as well you will probably be able to get the shutter speed that you would like to use with your chosen aperture as well, thus removing camera shake. That’s why I mentioned it earlier in my previous post.



Sure, trial and error is a good teacher but knowing what the equipment offers in terms of features to allow you to attain your goals is also important. I can see you understand the relationship between shutter speed and aperture but without factoring in ISO to give you the space and facility to maintain minimum shutter speeds, then no amount of playing will return the results that you want consistently. You will either get underexposed/overexposed as you alter the settings independently or blurred results due to slow shutter speeds; these are the complaints that you opened the thread with are they not?



Aren’t we all out to learn and improve, that’s why this site was set up

The kind of response I'd expect from a well educated photographer. Thanks again for all the help.

From what you have written I've learnt that by experimenting with iso it will help me reduce my camera shake problem? is this right? Tbh I havn't really played much with iso speeds except in different light situations and that as you know it can generate noise in darker situations. But dark environments would see me using my Nikon F1.8 50mm, however again it depends on the shooting situation.

This is going to be a far out question here but in your opinion, if I was shooting an outdoor event which included people what settings (iso,a,s) would you use or at least start with? Lets say its cloudy and I'd be standing probably about 1.5 metres away from the subject using a f2.8-4 24-85mm. One photo I'd like to generate shallow dof with the people/person in focus and the second photo I everything sharp? One factor here would see me adjusting the aperture for both shots. But what about shutter speeds and iso?, shutter speeds will see me being able to freezeframe the subject but high shutter speeds would probably not be needed if I could avoid my camera shake So I assume this is where upping the iso could help? and steadier hands?

Apologies if that was a bit of a long winded newbie scenario. But photography is a minefield for me but the subject (photography) motivates me to learn as I enjoy it.

Thanks again.

Ed

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Kinobe

From what you have written I've learnt that by experimenting with iso it will help me reduce my camera shake problem? is this right? Tbh I havn't really played much with iso speeds except in different light situations and that as you know it can generate noise in darker situations. But dark environments would see me using my Nikon F1.8 50mm, however again it depends on the shooting situation.

Let me clarify a little for you, to get a well exposed photograph you need to allow enough light to hit the sensor (in digital terms) for a long enough time. This is done by either opening up the lens wider (lower F Stop) or leaving the shutter open for longer. The first is the aperture and the second obviously shutter speed but by altering either of those we are changing the way the final photo looks. Now in the old days of film, there were several different ISO ratings, these referred to how sensitive each film was to light. The more sensitive, the higher the ISO and the less light was needed to get a properly exposed result. In Sensor terms the ISO is an electronic control over how sensitive it becomes, so if used correctly by increasing the ISO (sensitivity) you can get a properly exposed photo in less time without altering the F stop. This allows you to increase your shutter speed to eliminate camera shake at the cost of increased noise, although with most modern camera’s the noise is relatively low and can be controlled with ease.

So if you are shooting say in aperture priority at ISO 100, F8 and the shutter speed for a correctly exposed shot should be 1/30th sec, this would be too slow and introduce probable camera shake ruining the results. By altering the ISO to make the sensor more sensitive to light we can still shoot at F8 (to get the same depth of field but with a shutter speed of 1/60th to remove the camera shake. The ISO would now be higher and introduce slightly more noise though, as always there has to be compromises somewhere.

Originally Posted by Kinobe