[John T]

Hi
While I was on holiday, I realised that my current lens options don't provide sufficient zoom detail.
I have a 450d and use a 17-85 and a 70-300 lens.

I was taking pictures of bears across the river (approx 70m) and can see the bear clearly, but with little detail.

I realise there are a number of options and dependent on budget, but could you suggest what I might use to increase the zoom without breaking the bank. do I need to look at an L series lens?

Thanks

John

[dabhand16]

The cheapest option would be a converter. These are commonly available in 1.4x and 2x versions and some makers also offer 3x.

There are several things to consider.

1 Will a converter fit on your 70-300 without causing damage?
2 A 1.4x converter will loose you one stop and a 2x will loose you two stops. This might affect autofocus and restrict using the combination in poor light with insufficient exposure.
3 Most people consider that a 1.4x converter will have minimal impact on image quality, but a 2x will have some impact.

If you want a longer lens the results will be better, but at a price. The sigma 150-500 for instance is £637 at One Stop Digital. You need to consider how often you would use a long lens and if it is not often it might be better to hire one when required.

[sejanus]

This is one of those questions that should be handled with thick rubber gloves and a pair of tongs, in my experience.

First off, how steadily are you holding the camera? The longer the focal length, the more camera shake will affect the image. Do you use a tripod or a monopod? In my experience, a decent monopod will, more or less, double the perceived sharpness. A tripod, used with a cable release, will give you the maximum sharpness that the lens is capable of but may be too much trouble for your needs. A cheaper but useful alternative is a bean bag, provided there's something suitable to rest it on.

I really wouldn't even consider buying a more expensive lens until you've tried at least one of these solutions, the bean bag being the cheapest.

[John T]

Sejanus
I have a tripod but, I didn't want to take it on the plane. In hind site, I wish I had.
I was in Yellowstone and that meant a lot of stopping by the side of the road, for pictures of bear and other wildlife.
Obviously, being bear, it does not pay to get to close and as a result I never got any really good shots.

Dabhand
I may take your advice to get a converter.

Thanks

[fionaB]

i had a 2 x canon teleconverter, but because of the limitations I.E camera and lens combination I could only ever use it on manual focus which was no good for me. My other half used it with his 1DmkII and the 70 - 200 and it worked on centre spot only for auto focus and did not work on his 28 - 300L cos of the wide angle part of the lens........in hind sight it was in fact a waste of money, and sat gathering dust before i eventually parted with it.

so be wary when u buy a converter . make sure it will work with the lens camera combination you have.

[dabhand16]

Originally Posted by fionaB

so be wary when u buy a converter . make sure it will work with the lens camera combination you have.

Good advice

[ramziuk]

Originally Posted by fionaB

i had a 2 x canon teleconverter, but because of the limitations I.E camera and lens combination I could only ever use it on manual focus which was no good for me. My other half used it with his 1DmkII and the 70 - 200 and it worked on centre spot only for auto focus and did not work on his 28 - 300L cos of the wide angle part of the lens........in hind sight it was in fact a waste of money, and sat gathering dust before i eventually parted with it.

so be wary when u buy a converter . make sure it will work with the lens camera combination you have.

I can only echo the warning - my tip is to contact Canon and ask about converter compatibility - they will give you detailed advice (within the Canon range of course) which if memory serves me right is why I didn't acquire a teleconverter for my 70-300 (there was some sort of compatibility issue). You might have to wait a week for a response to your email but well worth it.

[John T]

Rumziuk
I will contact Canon, as you suggest.

Guys
Thanks for all your advice. I may also look at upgrading my camera to a 60d or similar range.

Thanks

John

[silver]

the last part of what might help get more detail is likely the camera, w/o seeing the shots can't say for sure

which 70-300 do you have, the canon 70-300IS is really a decent optic for the money (not all 70-300's are created equal!) after than you could be looking at something like the 100-400L IS - a lot more pricey for that extra 100mm of range if you want to stick with a zoom (there are off brand options like the sigma 50-500?)

post one of the bear pics? can sometimes help narrow down what could help

[John T]

Silver
I do have the 70-300IS. I'm trying to download the picture on this site, but it's either not working or they have a long review period, as I first tried on Tuesday.
I'll have another go now.

[silver]

uploading pics should be possible, there's a guide at http://www.pixalo.com/community/site...ide-36144.html

I think there's a file size limit which could be an issue,. will PM you and can mail it me so I can put it up if you like?

[dabhand16]

Originally Posted by John T

Silver
I do have the 70-300IS. I'm trying to download the picture on this site, but it's either not working or they have a long review period, as I first tried on Tuesday.
I'll have another go now.

Chances are that the images are over the Pixalo size limit. The gallery software will not accept oversize images.

[silver]

Cool, I uploaded the pics (as sent) as a point of reference

http://blog.pixmad.co.uk/images/IMG_...opy_pixalo.jpg
http://blog.pixmad.co.uk/images/IMG_...opy_pixalo.jpg

looking at the embedded data, they were taken at the longest end (i.e. zoomed to 300mm) and have reasonable shutter speed and are stopped down a little (f7 / f8) which all together should work out fine

the images to me look out of focus, like the camera for whatever reason didn't focus on the bears themselves,. what focus mode did you use,. have you tried using just the center focus point and locking focus on the subject then moving to reframe?

also do all the images taken at 300mm look like this, I don't think they should, have you tried liveview and manual focus to see if that works better (especially with a tripod)

[dabhand16]

In your first post I got the impression that you were complaining about not getting in close enough to your subjects. The pictures reveal a different problem. Whilst I agree with what Silver has said with regard to focus, looking at the EXIF 1/400 th sec shutter speed is marginal at 300mm if you were not using a monopod or tripod. I'd suggest at least 1/500 to reduce the chance of camera shake.

Most issues like this are down to not holding the camera steady enough. You might well find that a £20 monopod will improve your shots significantly and might well be the best first move. Adding a teleconverter or using longer lenses will exacerbate the problem if the camera support is the real issue.

[silver]

it is hard to know without seeing more images / ones that worked out better etc but 1/400 with 70-300IS lens should be ok in most cases, the first shot the foreground is reasonably (at least more) in focus than the subject - which definitely seems to be a focusing issue

2nd shot is harder to tell (both shots have been cropped it appears)

I am all for using a tripod for certain situations but in bright light with 70-300IS it should yield better results even w/o a tripod

[dabhand16]

Right again Silver - I did not notice that the lens had IS!

[John T]

Guys
I have managed to upload some pic's for your review. I think I definitely need to use a tripod in future

[url='http://']5122_copy.jpg[/img] [url='http://'] [url='http://'] [url='http://']

[dabhand16]

The landscapes at much shorter focal lengths seem to be better, although the pictures are quite small so it is difficult to see just how sharp they are. #2 is what I would expect with the lighting conditions there and the only way you are going to get more detail in the bears is by increasing the exposure. This will have a detrimental effect on the rest of the scene though. #1 is a classic focus trap where the foreground seems to be in better focus than the subject. If the camera is being left to its own devices to focus it would be fooled by this scene as it probably locked onto the branches rather than the bears.

Perhaps the first item on your agenda should be to practice selecting your focus points manually (presuming that you are not doing this already) and getting an understanding of depth of field and hyperfocal distance.

[silver]

right, I think the camera is probably on 'dynamic focus area' or whatever it's called, that is probably causing a lot of the issues with the camera picking the wrong thing on which to focus,. as above look at image #1 and you can see the camera has chosen the branches as the interesting part of the image (it doesn't always guess right!) so in this case you need to use a less automatic camera mode

your camera manual probably explains it better but a quick look on google - this is something about the differences The Focus Modes in your Viewfinder - Advanced Photography Tips

essentially you need to put the camera on 'one shot' rather than servo and specifically select the center focus point (or other but center is normally more accurate and you can always focus and recompose)

[dabhand16]

I've also had a look at the pictures in your gallery. I find it puzzling why you have selected the various shooting modes. Many of the problem images are on program mode and some landscapes are on shutter priority - one using 1/1600 th at f4.

The bulk of your pictures would be best taken in aperture priority mode having due regard for the focal length that you are using and depth of field. I've only seen one shot in A mode in your gallery.

I think you need to refine your technique rather than spend money on more lenses.

[John T]

Guys
I will be going to register for some photography lessons at the local college, this Sept.
Thanks very much for your feedback

[dabhand16]

Originally Posted by John T

Guys
I will be going to register for some photography lessons at the local college, this Sept.
Thanks very much for your feedback

Great idea

Often easier to pick things up in a classroom situation as you can ask for clarification of something does not click straight away. (No pun intended!)

[silver]

Originally Posted by John T

Guys
I will be going to register for some photography lessons at the local college, this Sept.
Thanks very much for your feedback

good stuff, it is way way too easy to buy more stuff and hope things improve,. often the answer is not in 'better' equipment at all (most of us only come to this realisation after spending 1000's on better cameras/lenses/tripod - the list goes on!)

read the camera manual as well.. it's not going to be a 'page turner' and some perhaps won't be easy to grasp right away but the more familiar you are with the stuff you have the more you'll get out of it