[silkstone]

Has anyone got one of the new (aluminium) 2.4GHz Macbooks?

If so, do you love it or hate it?

[Steve]

I don't think they run Linux mate

Are you thinking of trying something new?

[silkstone]

I've given up collecting camera bags and am now collecting toys. Er, computers.

I need a Mac to complete the set. This will allow me to get totally confused between Windows, Linux and OSX.

Oh alright, yes, Mac OSX is just a very expensive version of Linux, but the new Macbook does look rather, er, cool.

[Steve]

I dunno, next you'll be saying that you are giving Photoshop a whirl

[silkstone]

I will when it comes down to a quarter of the price.

[JAG]

I have the previous 2.4Ghz Macbook and it's replaced my pc completely. The new Macbook doesn't have a firewire port which in my opinion is wrong. Yep, has improved graphics and the multitouch mouse pad is nice, but is it all worth the extra £300 over the previous 2.4Ghz Macbook? I'm not so sure..

[silkstone]

I've never used Firewire so that isn't an issue for me, but you're right about the price - Apple don't seem to have heard about the recession. The consensus seems to be that (Firewire aside) the new version is a lot better in terms of graphics performance. the touchpad is good and the build quality is superb, but it's overpriced.

Perhaps they will be cheaper after Christmas.

[LJR69]

I have a Macbook Pro (Santa Rosa model which is the sort you are referring to). I absolutely love it. I use it mainly for photography work but I do run parallels which allows me to run MS Windows Vista (or just Windows apps within the Mac OS environment when using Coherence mode) for those programs which haven't yet made it to MacOS.

Great laptop.

[ROBIN]

my son has one and loves it

[silkstone]

Would anyone else like to tempt me?

[silkstone]

Nobody?

I really thought all the Mac fans would be rushing to drag me and my credit card to the Apple store.

Maybe I should have said I was thinking of buying a Nikon.

(DOWN, Jack! )

[silkstone]

Continuing my monologue....

We ventured to Meadowhall (aka Meadowhell) at lunchtime to look at the Macbooks in the Apple Store. I/we were thinking of treating my/ourselves especially as Sue gets a 14% discount through working in a University.

So I had a good play, and I have to say that the GUI is very glitzy and the whole thing has a lot of visual appeal.

But...

1. The 2.4GHz model is still £968 even after the discount.

2. I have a load of music files in a mixture of formats - mainly MP3 and WMA. Apparently iTunes won't play WMA files.

3. The screen viewing angle wasn't too good, especially vertically. This is typical of laptops but I'd hoped for something better at this price.

4. Before we went we'd watched the latest Wallace & Gromit on the BBC iPlayer in high quality mode using my 2+ year old Acer 5612 laptop running Ubuntu Intrepid. The quality was very good. We watched the start of W&G on the Macbook in the store, and the quality was also very good - but no better.

5. No doubt the Macbook would be better at 3D games, having an Nvidia 9400M graphics card instead of the 7300 GeForce Go in the Acer. But I don't play 3D games.

6. The 2.4 GHz processor in the Macbook would also be faster than the 1.66GHz Core Duo in the Acer. Having said that, applications like Safari etc didn't seem to start any faster than Firefox on the Acer.

7. I could run Photoshop CS4 on the Mac, but I don't use Photoshop, and Bibble runs on any platform.

8. I think I've just saved myself nearly £1000. I haven't totally given up the idea of a Mac, but right now I can't really see the point apart from the eye-candy which I could have with Ubuntu if I wanted.

The invitation is still open for Mac fans to tell me what I'm missing.

[PeteT]

Hi Silkstone,
I have an iMac and was looking for a laptop, so you would think that a Macbook might be the natural choice - but I have decided against it !

Why? - well the Macbook is just too damn expensive for what it is. Yes it is stylish, yes the glass trackpad is very nice, but - no way is it worth the small fortune Apple are asking for it. Other than the fact it is slim and has a nice trackpad, the specification is not particularly hefty - I suppose the 9600M graphics card is quite good, but not enough to get me to buy one for THAT price.

I purchased a laptop for my daughter with a 2.4GHz dual core, 2GB ram and a decent (for business apps and watching video card) and a 15.4 inch screen in November for £440 - so what exactly does the Macbook have which is worth another £600+ pounds - I certainly don't know

So I'm afraid you'll just have to wait for another Mac afficianado to prize your wallet open.

[silkstone]

Pete - Which laptop did you get for your daughter?

[PeteT]

It was a Fujitsu Siemens Esmprimo M9400, purchased from Misco for £428.85 delivered (I checked the invoice), but unfortunately Misco no longer sell them

Specifications
Product Description Fujitsu Siemens ESPRIMO Mobile M9400 Notebook PC
Processor Intel Core 2 Duo T7700 / 2.4 GHz ( Dual-Core )
Hard Drive 120 GB - Serial ATA-150 - 5400 rpm
Networking Network adapter - Ethernet, Fast Ethernet, Gigabit Ethernet, IEEE 802.11b, IEEE 802.11a, IEEE 802.11g, IEEE 802.11n (draft), Bluetooth 2.0
RAM 2 GB (installed) / 4 GB (max) - DDR II SDRAM - 667 MHz
Graphics Controller Intel GMA X3100
Built-in Devices Stereo speakers, Wireless LAN aerial, Bluetooth 2.0
Card Reader Yes
Display 14.1" TFT 1280 x 800 ( WXGA )
Optical Storage DVDRW (+R double layer) / DVD-RAM
OS Provided Genuine Windows Vista® Business and Windows XP Professional
Dimensions (WxDxH) 33.5 cm x 24.5 cm x 3.8 cm
Weight 2.2 Kg
Warranty 1 year warranty

[silkstone]

Thanks. I was looking at this as a possible upgrade to the Acer, but I really don't like the idea of Vista and I'm not sure how well it would run Ubuntu...

Sony VAIO NS10J/S 15.4-inch Laptop: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

[PeteT]

It should run Ubuntu fine (Ubuntu is no more a resource hog than Vista). The laptop has a decent processor (but 2.0GHz rather than the 2.4GHZ of the Macbook), plenty of RAM, and good reviews. The only downside is the graphics card - not the greatest, but fine for business apps and movies, no good if you want to play the latest 3D games, and it won't be much help to the Photoshop plugins which can use the 3d card to assist processing, but you wouldn't expect to be able to do that at this price point anyway.

Macbook vs the Sony - that sounds to me like a heart vs head decision !!!!

[silkstone]

Cheers Pete.

Something else that rather put me off the Mac was that there was someone in the Apple Store complaining that she was on her fifth iPod in two years - something (mainly the hard drive) had failed on them all. It made me wonder if Apple/Mac is a triumph of style over substance, although OSX does seem to be a good version of Linux. (I also wondered why she didn't buy a different brand of MP3 player. )

I had wi-fi problems with my Acer 5612 running Ubuntu 8.04 - the signal strength fluctuated a lot and was sometimes lost. Although, to be fair, this is at some distance from the router - a floor up and through two solid walls and a floor full of copper pipes.

I made a parabolic reflector for the router aerial, and that made a big difference with the Asus eee PC (also running Ubuntu 8.04) but it didn't help much with the Acer laptop.

So... I did a clean install of the latest Ubuntu 8.10 on the laptop, without expecting too much, but actually it has improved things a lot - the reception is much more stable and hasn't (yet) dropped out.

I'll probably stick with it and stop thinking that the grass is greener....

[PeteT]

iPods / MP3 players can take quite a bit of physical abuse in the hands of some people, which is bound to cause failures. We have had 3 iPods (2 iPod classics and an iPod video) without a seconds trouble and the 80GB video is well over 2 years old.

Style over substance? To a certain extent yes, but then, as photographers we appreciate a bit of style, don't we I really like my iMac for the fact that it is VERY quiet out of the box (I know you can get quiet PCs, but it takes a lot of effort), that my wife doesn't complain about the ugly grey box in her dining room (which is where my home office is) and that using Bootcamp I can run Windows on it for those applications which just aren't available on OSX.

I agree that OSX is a good operating system, it is certainly stable - I have had only one problem in the 14 months I have owned the iMac and that was very quickly dealt with by calling Apple support, who were courteous, efficient, knowledgeable and when I phoned them a human answered the phone very quickly (which in this day and age are all unusual experiences). If you live near to an Apple store (I have one 10 mins away), the service from the store is excellent and you can generally get answers to any questions you have very quickly.

All in all I am pleased I bought the desktop iMac, and would buy another when this one either gets too long in the tooth to run the software I want / need, or gives up the ghost permanently.

I doubt whether the Apple prices will drop much (Apple is a hardware company really - that is where they make the big money from), so if you WANT a MacBook I wouldn't delay waiting for a price cut, as it is unlikely to happen.....

Oh - and I have heard that it is possible to get OSX running on a non Apple computer although of course I have to point out that would be a violation of Apple's licensing terms

[clafra]

I have a Macs since about 9 months and it made me realy dislike every second I have to spend on a Windows computer.

I love Aperture and the usability, the effectiveness of OSX and that I can shut it down by closing the screen 100x without having one problem when opening it and restarting OSX in 3 Seconds.

I know they are not cheap but man, If you count a cent for every second waiting and frustration you have windows, it's pretty cheap!

[silkstone]

clafra - I appreciate what you say, and I'm no fan of Windows (although I've not tried Vista). I use Ubuntu Linux for everything except accounts software (and in a few weeks that will cease too). So really I'm comparing OSX with Ubuntu which is also very fast and stable and supports almost any media file format.

The main advantage of OSX is that there is more proprietary software for Mac than Linux, but you pay a hefty price for the hardware and are encouraged to follow the gospel according to Steve Jobs rather than being a non-conformist.

[PeteT]

Originally Posted by silkstone

cI'm no fan of Windows (although I've not tried Vista).

Apparently Windows XP is the most popular downgrade in history (from Vista). If you don't like XP, then it is highly likely you won't like Vista.

[ROBIN]

These sort of topics make me laugh.

"why are apple computers so expensive compared to an acer computer "

Now I am not one for nocking the acer computer which is fine but lets compare apples with apples (pun implied !).

At least compare the apple computers with a IBM, Panasonic or Sony, not some cheap Korean thing.

The all of a sudden the prices of these are on par or more expensive for the same spec.

OSX beats windows hands down full stop.
Vista the most hated OS out there ?

XP creaking at the seams and buggy as hell and a security risk written all over it !

You pay for what you get at the end of the day.

If you want & like ford cars fine.
If you like Volvo fine but they cost more.

Some magazine ran a test on which is the fastest laptop out there. ?

It was supposed to be for Windows, surprise surprise it turned out to be an apple computer in boot camp running windows was the fasted. !

etc.

The computers make are more expensive than acer and some others but compare apples with apples.

My Nikon cost more than a Kodak.

Robin...

[silkstone]

@ ROBIN

I'm glad you've had a laugh. We could all do with one. But the point of this thread was to help me assess the merits of buying a Macbook, and with all due respect your post doesn't contribute very much.

As for Acer being "some cheap Korean thing" - where do you think other computers (and their components) are made? China? Taiwan? Surbiton? Where are Macs made, and the bits inside them such as the Intel processors?

If you'd read my previous posts you'd know that I wasn't comparing OSX with Windows - especially Vista. I was interested in people's experiences with the Macbook, and whether (and why) they thought it was a good idea to get one.

I need something that does what I want and doesn't have to do what I don't want. If you can provide a comparative review of an Acer 5612WLMi running Ubuntu 8.10 versus an Apple Macbook running OSX I'd be delighted. If you can offer your personal experience of using a Macbook I'd be very pleased indeed. Otherwise you are not really being of much help.

EDIT/ I'm allowed to be tetchy.

ANOTHER EDIT/ Do you know who owns Volvo and is currently trying to sell it?

[ROBIN]

Silkstone I would not dream of telling which computer to buy. You have to chose one yourself.

However:-

Yes I own a macbook pro, have done for several years.
It is better than the IBM laptop I had before.
The dell I had before that was junk.

Its not just where they are made that is important but HOW they are designed.

Apple designed in USA, built in China.

The important thing is they are not build down to a price.

You get fantastic support on line & phone 365 days a year.

Apple is a lifestyle choice.

Its just not sensible comparing an acer to an apple, yes both computers but worlds apart.

Yes I know ford own volvo.

But where is the design and production done ?

Glad you spotted that. How many old fords do you see compared to volvo's (+ 10 years) ?

The macbook will be around long after the acer is in a scrap heap somewhere.

Dont bit the hand that gives an opinion.

Robin...

[Markulous]

Originally Posted by ROBIN

Apple is a lifestyle choice

Now there you have the answer!

And I still laugh at the official response to the first generation of iPods when punters queried how they replaced the battery, to be told that they'd have to buy a new iPod! That meant that, in theory, you could own an iPod, never use it (daft I know!) and at the end of a couple of years have to replace it with a new one (Li-ion batteries only have a couple of years lifetime, used or not)

Someone summed up the whole question very well in a forum thread (on a tech site): "Its horses for courses, if you want basic features, use linux; for a pretty and easy to use laptop for common functions (at least in a home environment), Macs are very good; if you want business and high-end games, use windows and upgradable hardware"

and for a genuine reason to get that MacBook: "Two words: multitouch trackpad. It is pure genius. Ok maybe not conceptually a huge leap forward but the implementation makes a laptop actually usable without an external mouse"

Personally, I don't use Apple products - spent too many years in the computer industry to be trapped by proprietary products!

[silkstone]

Thanks for all advice here. And please believe me, I would never bite a hand that gives an opinion. Right now I bite fairly hard so you'd know if I did.

And... beyond all sense, reason and logic (perhaps), in the cold light of dawn (or a few hours thereafter) I will drag Sue kicking and screaming (not true) to the Apple Store in Meadowhall and buy a Macbook.

There are several reasons for this decision...

1) Life is too short (really) to carry on wondering whether or not to get one.

2) The cost is a tenth as much as Dave has already lost in depreciation on his car.

3) I have scrapped the idea of getting a 5D MkII, a 1Ds MkIII, an Audi RS8 and a villa in Cannes, so a Macbook seems fairly economical by comparison. (Note: Not all of these were actually possible. )

4) What the heck!

So very shortly I could be transformed from a boring Linux nerd into a boring Mac nerd - watch this space if you're really desperate.

P.S. This message comes to you courtesy of a £250 Asus eee PC running Ubuntu-eee, so really I have no excuse for buying anything else.

[PeteT]

Way to go Silkstone. Hope you enjoy your new MacBook.

Here are some useful mac sites to get you started :

macZOT Bundle
MacUpdate: Apple Macintosh Software & Game Downloads (and their offer a day site Big discounts and great deals on Mac software every day - MacUpdate Promo)
MacHeist » Welcome

Make sure you get the free licence for 1password from MacHeist - its great for managing all your online passwords securely.

[silkstone]

Now typing this on a Macbook. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually - not managed to crash it yet.

[clafra]

Congratulation!

Will you use Aperture or Lightroom to manage your pictures?

I'm using Aperture but must say, looking more and more into lightroom as it supports now better Photoshop and has the local U-Point adjustment which is just a genius way to work on pictures.