Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format

orangepeel · 08-03-2007, 10:49

Quote:

THE SOFTWARE FIRM famous for its proprietary file formats said it wants its HD Photo file format to be a standard for digital photography.

Microsoft got its best spinning machine out of the cupboard to explain what HD Photo is: "This new, next-generation digital image format offers the best solution for digital image editing and storage and unlocks the potential for digital photography on devices, applications and services.

Microsoft also announced that it intends to standardise the technology and will be submitting HD Photo to an appropriate standards organisation shortly.

Unpick that.

The Vole claims HD Photo is twice as efficient as JPEG at compression and has less "damaging artefacts".

The real question is whether you can trust Microsoft with a file format it's pushing. We don't think so

Original source : The Inquirer

**Markulous** · 08-03-2007, 11:15

I'm surprised that The Inquirer took the bait, seeing as this is just MS getting some publicity for their format that has been in existence for quite some time - admittedly under the somewhat unfortunate name of Windows Media Photo (soon abbreviated to WiMP!). A 'relaunch' under HD Photo does seem a good idea!

Personally, if it's claims of compression are justified, see no problem with it - just as I see no problem with a generic RAW file format suggested by Adobe. So long as it remains an open specification for all to use as they see fit (after all there's licensing involved in JPGs!)

**Sonsey** · 08-03-2007, 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markulous

I'm surprised that The Inquirer took the bait

Lol I'm not... they always do!

orangepeel · 08-03-2007, 14:41

are you suggesting the inquirer is a shill for microsoft? coz dude... i want some of what you're smoking.

**Sonsey** · 08-03-2007, 15:33

Lol, not at all, just that they can be quite erm' dramatic... about everything!

orangepeel · 08-03-2007, 16:03

Well yes, it's a red top

I know lots of people are put off by the way they write. For me it makes the place worth reading. The IT press tends to be dry at the best of times. The inq deserves prizes for bringing in humour. For example. Sony used to be known as "Sony - Maker of exploding batteries" while dell was "Dell - Maker of exploding laptops"

It's the sort of thing that gives marketing & pr bunnies ulcers. Something that breed very much deserve.

***Steve*** · 09-03-2007, 10:50

Here is the official Microsoft press release…

Quote:

The Photo Marketing Association (PMA) 07 International Convention and Trade Show in Las Vegas, Microsoft Corp. formally announced HD Photo, a new file format for end-to-end digital photography that offers higher image quality, greater preservation of data, and advanced features for today’s digital-imaging applications.

This new, next-generation digital image format offers the best solution for digital image editing and storage and unlocks the potential for digital photography on devices, applications and services. Microsoft also announced that it intends to standardize the technology and will be submitting HD Photo to an appropriate standards organization shortly.

HD Photo offers compression with up to twice the efficiency of JPEG, with fewer damaging artifacts, resulting in higher-quality images that are one-half the file size. In addition, HD Photo offers increased image fidelity, preserving the entire original image content and enabling higher-quality exposure and color adjustments in the image. This new format offers the ability to decode only the information needed for any resolution or region, or the option to manipulate the image as compressed data.

“With HD Photo, we’re taking a new approach to creating and editing photos that simply isn’t available to photographers with today’s formats,” said Amir Majidimehr, corporate vice president of the Consumer Media Technology Group at Microsoft. HD Photo fully preserves the original image fidelity with high dynamic range while still allowing for significant improvement in compression size.

In addition, HD Photo offers both lossless and lossy image compression, and can retain the full dynamic range and color gamut data from a camera’s sensor. Also, because making adjustments to common color balance and exposure settings won’t discard or truncate data as other common bitmap formats typically do, it’s easier to undo those changes at a later time. As a result, significantly smaller files can be created while still retaining optimum picture quality.

Microsoft also announced the beta release of a set of HD Photo plug-ins for Adobe Photoshop software, developed with the help of Adobe Systems Inc. These plug-ins enable users to both read and write HD Photo files from within Adobe Photoshop software, and include support for high dynamic range pixel formats. The plug-ins support both the CS3 and CS2 versions of Adobe Photoshop software, and will be available for Windows Vista™ and Windows XP, as well as Mac OS X (Universal Binary). A beta version of the Windows plug-in is available today for download at the Microsoft Download Center at Microsoft Download Center. Microsoft expects to release finished plug-ins, which will be free of charge, in approximately 60 days.

The HD Photo Device Porting Kit is also available for download at the Microsoft Download Center, allowing manufacturers to add HD Photo support in devices and to other platforms.

HD Photo is natively supported in Windows Vista by a Windows Imaging Component (WIC) codec, and can be similarly supported in Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 through a free WIC download. HD Photo is also included in Microsoft .NET Framework 3.0. With support on popular platforms such as Windows XP, Windows Vista and Mac OS X, HD Photo will allow consumers to easily view, edit and share images without conversion or special applications. The format also allows for flexible metadata handling and supports industry-standard metadata formats.

backlash · 13-03-2007, 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Here is the official Microsoft press release…

Quote:

A beta version of the Windows plug-in is available today for download at the Microsoft Download Center at Microsoft Download Center.

I can hear my computer screaming now, "Not another Microsoft Beta!" I don't think it could take many more 'Security Updates'

j sotelo · 13-03-2007, 17:20

I took this from ZDNET

"From the sensor viewpoint, we're looking at how to get a larger color range. Translating that into a file format is something where there's room for improvement," Venkatraman said.

A broader color gamut is indeed one of the advantages Microsoft touts for HD Photo. ("HD" doesn't actually stand for anything, but the company hopes it will connote the "high definition" advantages of HDTV.) Among other HD Photo features:

• It can store 16 or 32 bits of data for each color, compared with JPEG's 8 bits, making it easier to discern shadow details or the subtle tonal variations of snow in sunlight.

• It compresses data twice as efficiently as JPEG, with either twice the quality at a given file size or half the file size at a given quality.

• It's designed to work well in camera image-processing chips, and to reduce memory requirements, it encodes images chunk by chunk without having to store the complete image at one time.

Microsoft has built support for the newer format into Windows Vista and has won an ally in influential graphics company Adobe Systems. At the same time, though, many of the photographers most likely to appreciate HD Photo's advantages already are shooting using "raw" data taken directly from the camera image sensors. Adobe is trying to replace myriad raw formats with its own Digital Negative specification, though it hasn't said whether it will seek to formally standardize that technology.

Overall, Microsoft's HD Photo journey has just begun.

"You're still probably talking at least a couple years before you get some form of critical mass," Lee said, and displacing JPEG is another challenge beyond that. "They're just at the very, very beginning."

Rob Barron · 13-03-2007, 20:22

It worries me when any software company seeks to bring out its own file format and make it a de facto standard because further on down the line they stand to make a fortune from it.

Microsoft is not the only software company on the planet, even though it likes to think it is. There are others and many of them are better. Adobe, as much as I love teaching Photoshop to people, is not the only graphics editing company out there. So if you have a 'standard' format that is licensed by Microsoft and a RAW format that is owned by Adobe, those two companies, a few years from now, will be making every single camera company pay them a stonking licence fee to use it in their cameras.

Don't get me wrong, I know that this is not a new situation. I just think it will take some phenomenal file format for the likes of Canon and Nikon to be ready to relinquish control over their RAW files. It would mean all improvements that companies want to make would have to be done through Adobe AND the benefits passed on to all other camera companies even if they haven't had anything to do with the improvements.

There is a lot to be done before any single format is going to take control in the market place I think. I have said before, I am no marketing man nor technical wizard, so it is very possible I am entirely wrong and that one company will bring out a single file format that makes all others obsolete in a fortnight.... but I doubt it

Think I'll stick to taking photos and editing them. I'll leave the rest to the others who will no doubt stitch me up for many an upgrade and licence for years to come!

Cheers,
Rob

orangepeel · 13-03-2007, 21:32

Might as well whistle into the wind. I'd also like them to adopt a common lens mount too.

But these companies don't exist to make our lives easy. They exist to make money.

This isn't a technical issue. It's a licence/marketing issue. Exactly the same as HDDVD/Blueray. No company wants to pay another company to use their format, nor do they want to use an open format coz they can't charge others to use it.

It would be easy to say that because we can read our RAW files in our chosen software no problem, we shouldn't really care about the issue. However all these different formats need supported and that will incur a cost somewhere along the line. We are paying. Make no mistake about that.

**Markulous** · 13-03-2007, 22:15

To be fair to MS (and I never thought I'd defend them!), they have categorically stated that they would not charge for licensing of HD Photo.

I assume that MS gain by incorporating items in the spec that can relate to MS products, not having to pay a license fee to a 3rd party (as with JPGs), not having to conform to someone else and, potentially the biggest advantage, being totally in control of where the spec ends up, both literally and contents-wise!

08-03-2007, 11:15	#2 (permalink)
Markulous Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peak District Posts: 10,184	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format I'm surprised that The Inquirer took the bait, seeing as this is just MS getting some publicity for their format that has been in existence for quite some time - admittedly under the somewhat unfortunate name of Windows Media Photo (soon abbreviated to WiMP!). A 'relaunch' under HD Photo does seem a good idea! Personally, if it's claims of compression are justified, see no problem with it - just as I see no problem with a generic RAW file format suggested by Adobe. So long as it remains an open specification for all to use as they see fit (after all there's licensing involved in JPGs!) __________________ ~CanonCreativity + SigmaSurReality~ by ΜΛЯΚ Last edited by Markulous : 08-03-2007 at 11:17. Reason: Relaunch info

08-03-2007, 14:41	#4 (permalink)
orangepeel Feet under the table Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,507	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format are you suggesting the inquirer is a shill for microsoft? coz dude... i want some of what you're smoking.

08-03-2007, 15:33	#5 (permalink)
Sonsey Pixalo Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: N. Ireland Posts: 7,260	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format Lol, not at all, just that they can be quite erm' dramatic... about everything!

08-03-2007, 16:03	#6 (permalink)
orangepeel Feet under the table Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,507	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format Well yes, it's a red top I know lots of people are put off by the way they write. For me it makes the place worth reading. The IT press tends to be dry at the best of times. The inq deserves prizes for bringing in humour. For example. Sony used to be known as "Sony - Maker of exploding batteries" while dell was "Dell - Maker of exploding laptops" It's the sort of thing that gives marketing & pr bunnies ulcers. Something that breed very much deserve.

13-03-2007, 17:20	#9 (permalink)
j sotelo Feet under the table Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: San Diego, Ca. Where the Surf meets the Turf Posts: 1,952	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format I took this from ZDNET "From the sensor viewpoint, we're looking at how to get a larger color range. Translating that into a file format is something where there's room for improvement," Venkatraman said. A broader color gamut is indeed one of the advantages Microsoft touts for HD Photo. ("HD" doesn't actually stand for anything, but the company hopes it will connote the "high definition" advantages of HDTV.) Among other HD Photo features: • It can store 16 or 32 bits of data for each color, compared with JPEG's 8 bits, making it easier to discern shadow details or the subtle tonal variations of snow in sunlight. • It compresses data twice as efficiently as JPEG, with either twice the quality at a given file size or half the file size at a given quality. • It's designed to work well in camera image-processing chips, and to reduce memory requirements, it encodes images chunk by chunk without having to store the complete image at one time. Microsoft has built support for the newer format into Windows Vista and has won an ally in influential graphics company Adobe Systems. At the same time, though, many of the photographers most likely to appreciate HD Photo's advantages already are shooting using "raw" data taken directly from the camera image sensors. Adobe is trying to replace myriad raw formats with its own Digital Negative specification, though it hasn't said whether it will seek to formally standardize that technology. Overall, Microsoft's HD Photo journey has just begun. "You're still probably talking at least a couple years before you get some form of critical mass," Lee said, and displacing JPEG is another challenge beyond that. "They're just at the very, very beginning." __________________ "A Wise Man can see more from the bottom of a well than a Fool can see from the top of a mountain. "

13-03-2007, 20:22	#10 (permalink)
Rob Barron Loves the place Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Poole, Dorset Posts: 5,388	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format It worries me when any software company seeks to bring out its own file format and make it a de facto standard because further on down the line they stand to make a fortune from it. Microsoft is not the only software company on the planet, even though it likes to think it is. There are others and many of them are better. Adobe, as much as I love teaching Photoshop to people, is not the only graphics editing company out there. So if you have a 'standard' format that is licensed by Microsoft and a RAW format that is owned by Adobe, those two companies, a few years from now, will be making every single camera company pay them a stonking licence fee to use it in their cameras. Don't get me wrong, I know that this is not a new situation. I just think it will take some phenomenal file format for the likes of Canon and Nikon to be ready to relinquish control over their RAW files. It would mean all improvements that companies want to make would have to be done through Adobe AND the benefits passed on to all other camera companies even if they haven't had anything to do with the improvements. There is a lot to be done before any single format is going to take control in the market place I think. I have said before, I am no marketing man nor technical wizard, so it is very possible I am entirely wrong and that one company will bring out a single file format that makes all others obsolete in a fortnight.... but I doubt it Think I'll stick to taking photos and editing them. I'll leave the rest to the others who will no doubt stitch me up for many an upgrade and licence for years to come! Cheers, Rob __________________ Rob Barron robbarron@aol.com If you look down on other people, don't expect them to look up to you!

13-03-2007, 21:32	#11 (permalink)
orangepeel Feet under the table Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 1,507	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format Might as well whistle into the wind. I'd also like them to adopt a common lens mount too. But these companies don't exist to make our lives easy. They exist to make money. This isn't a technical issue. It's a licence/marketing issue. Exactly the same as HDDVD/Blueray. No company wants to pay another company to use their format, nor do they want to use an open format coz they can't charge others to use it. It would be easy to say that because we can read our RAW files in our chosen software no problem, we shouldn't really care about the issue. However all these different formats need supported and that will incur a cost somewhere along the line. We are paying. Make no mistake about that. __________________

13-03-2007, 22:15	#12 (permalink)
Markulous Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Peak District Posts: 10,184	Re: Microsoft wants you to use its photo file format To be fair to MS (and I never thought I'd defend them!), they have categorically stated that they would not charge for licensing of HD Photo. I assume that MS gain by incorporating items in the spec that can relate to MS products, not having to pay a license fee to a 3rd party (as with JPGs), not having to conform to someone else and, potentially the biggest advantage, being totally in control of where the spec ends up, both literally and contents-wise!

13-03-2007, 22:52	#13 (permalink)
sillyconguru Quite Chatty Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 67