[stupot]

I recently saw an adition of The Money Program on sunday night about how the legality of some banking charges are being called into question.

The program centered around a guy called Stephen Hone, a law student who challenged his bank in the small claims court for the repayment of the past six years banking charges. Stephen argued that under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999) all penalty charges have to truly reflect the cost of administering them. They are not permitted to be a profit-making enterprise for any business. He believes if a penalty charge is higher than its administrative cost, it is illegal, and yes you've quessed it he won.

This certainly got me going and following the advice given on the BBC website i decided to approach my bank. I first phoned my bank (RBS) and as expected wasn't given much credence to my arguement. So i took it to the next step and trawled through my last six years bank statements and calcuated all the charges, just over £1000, i photocopied all statements containing charges along with a letter stating the argument (Letter template downloaded from BBC site) and requesting a full refund within 14 days or i'll proceed with court action.

Well on the 14th day recieved a letter saying they are looking into the matter and to bare with them, gave them another 2 weeks and was due to start the ball rolling with court action this weekend when low and behold an offer of the full amount this morning. Result!!

Naturally the bank states that it disagrees with my complaint but as a good will gesture they will pay me back...funny how not one bank that has been challenged on this has had the balls to fight their case in the courts.

Now i know some of you are probably thinking well if you run your account well you wont get charged which is true but from time to time people do experience some financial strain. i'll give you an example of what recently happened to me, my partner recently lost her job and obviously the financial burden was all on my account for awhile. On a certain day last month i had a loan payment due to come out so knowing i didn't have the total funds in my account i paid some cash in to cover it. Now my bank is usually pretty good and if everything tallies by the end of the day then everything is fine. Well the Direct Debit came out 2 hours before the cash was paid in and i was charged £38 this then put me over my overdraft and i was charged again £38 this then put me well over my overdraft limit and as a result 2 further small direct debits failed incuring a further two charges of £38. Now if i wasn't charged initially everything would of gone through as expected. It wasn't until i checked my account a week or so later that i realised what had happened. That was the last straw for me and why i threatened court action.

Anyway thats enough of me now if your still awake here are the links for you to look into this yourselves

BBC BBC NEWS | Business | Are penalty charges bank robbery?

Stephen Hone's Website PENALTY CHARGES :: FIGHTING YOUR CORNER - FOR FREE

Martin lewis's Website Bank charges: Reclaim them, they're unlawful, so you can get six years money back | MoneySavingExpert: Consumer Revenge, Credit Cards, Shopping, Bank Charges, Cheap Flights and more,

Consumer Action Group - Welcome

Regards
Stuart

[Dave]

Excellent result Stuart & fair play for following it through

[stepheno]

Good one, Stuart. Thanks for sharing

[cotter]

very interesting Stupot, I had heard about this but was'nt sure if it was worth trying. I will now.

[Gary Bagshawe]

I too have tied this with natwest and a store card, got half the money back of the store card but the natwest want me to take them to court and if i do they will close my account

[stupot]

yes Gary the advice is to open another account before you take any action, but if you have debts with the bank, loans, overdrafts or credit cards etc its very unlikely they would as its all about risk for a bank and if your regular money, wages is going elsewhere they have no guarentee of getting their money.

[fionaB]

damn i knew there was a reason i should have kept my bank statements!

[Rob Barron]

Fiona, your bank can provide you with statements going back as far as the opening of your account. Ask but don't tell them why LOL.

I must admit this hasn't happened to me much but I did have an issue a couple of months ago. I have an account that I only use for setting up DDs and SOs so I transfer to it just what I need to cover the bills. However, I have a regular credit that goes in every week but because it went in a day light a DD was bounced and they tried to charge me £39. I phoned them up and argued that it was not my fault that the weekly credit had been paid in a day later than it should have been. The guy I spoke to looked at my account and simply said 'Ah yes, I can see the one you mean. That's fair enough. No problem sir, I'll credit that back to your account now. Sorry for the inconvenience.'

I was livid.... I had been all ready to shout and holler but he stole my thunder. Damn, why did he have to be so reasonable? <g>

Don't let the banks get away with it. If you have gone OD by mistake then sure, you can expect to pay a small charge for the work caused to the bank but writing you a letter to tell you your cheque bounced does not cost the bank £39.... they pay their staff pretty poorly so even at a tenner an hour, that would mean it had taken an employee over 3 hours to deal with the problem! So hit back and they nearly always give in.

I do all my banking online now so I can see my accounts, move money across if one is too low for the outgoing bills and stuff like that. It is superbly easy and I feel so much more in control. I am with Halifax (HBoS) and their online banking is pretty good.

Cheers,
Rob

[stupot]

i'm not so sure Rob on the fact they nearly always give in, after my example of being charged last month i phoned my bank and they even admitted that i shouldn't of recieved the first charge but would'nt refund the rest of them. i was on the phone for about half an hour as well. it is definately worth a try though.

And Fiona check out the BBC website it tell you how, under the data protection act, you can get the last 6 years bank statements, costs a maximum of £10 which you can add to your claim if you did proceed.

[Suicide Reject]

Originally Posted by stupot

This certainly got me going and following the advice given on the BBC website i decided to approach my bank. I first phoned my bank (RBS) and as expected wasn't given much credence to my arguement. So i took it to the next step and trawled through my last six years bank statements and calcuated all the charges, just over £1000, i photocopied all statements containing charges along with a letter stating the argument (Letter template downloaded from BBC site) and requesting a full refund within 14 days or i'll proceed with court action.

Well on the 14th day recieved a letter saying they are looking into the matter and to bare with them, gave them another 2 weeks and was due to start the ball rolling with court action this weekend when low and behold an offer of the full amount this morning. Result!!

Your post here intriuged me, for reasons I will divulge in a moment. Good on you for getting your charges refunded! You were damn lucky!

Now I have a confession...lol I used to work for the Royal Bank as they're Service Quality Manager, the one that deals with all complaints a branch gets and has to resolve them. As everyone knows everyone hates charges. The amount of customers i've had shouting at me cos they went overdrawn. In most cases I was sympathetic as usually it's an oversight and lets face it ain't exactly fair what banks can charge you. Tho from personal experience I know how hard it is to get money from RBS, they're policy then was on the 1st occassion refund after that good luck to ya.

So good on ya Stuart

[Rob Barron]

How about this for a ludicrous situation then (not really on topic but related so I think it is ok )

About three years ago I went to draw out £50 from an HBOS hole in the wall. I got the money without a problem but when I counted it there was.... £70! What had happened was one note had got folded over and had not got counted by the machinery.

So, I went into the Halifax and said 'I know this might sound daft but your machine just gave me too much money.' The rest of the rather surreal comversation went like this:

Bank: 'Not it didn't.'

Me: 'Sorry?'

Bank: 'It didn't give you too much money.'

Me: <somewhat bemused> 'I assure you it did. Look, I punched in £50 and here is what it gave me....' proffered three £20's and a £10.

Bank: <as though I was being somewhat tiresome!> 'Sir, you probably just typed £70 by mistake. It happens.'

Me: <showing receipt> 'But I have the receipt as well and it shows I took out £50!'

Bank: 'Well i am sorry sir, whatever you did doesn't really matter. Is there anything else I can do for you today?'

Me: 'Well, all I can say is this: I had NO money in my wallet.... which is why I went to the machine.... I have a receipt that says I drew out £50 but in my hands I have £70. Why can't you see that?'

Bank: 'Sir, it really is quite busy. If you have a complaint about the machine, please put the details in writing.'

Me: 'Complaint? My only complaint is that the machine doesn't give me more money more often! So let me get this straight. You are saying this is NOT your bank's money, it is MY money and you cannot come after me for £20 that was overpaid to me by YOUR machine at some point in the future?'

Bank: 'Sir, we don't chase our customers for money, they usually bring it in or pay it in through a machine!'

Me: 'Ok, thank you very much. It's very kind of your bank but I do sincerely hope they don't dock this from anyone's wages as I have done everything I can to be honest and give it back to you.'

Bank: 'Have a good day sir.'

I couldn't make them take it back no matter how hard I tried so I just gave up and left them to it. The look of surprise on the face of a homeless lady selling the Big Issue was an absolute picture when I shoved a £20 note in her hand and told her to have a good day!

I have later learnt that the bank's cashiers are under strict orders NEVER to admit a mistake from one of their machines under any circumstances. Aparrently 999 times out of a thousand it is someone trying to pull a fast one and telling the bank the machine didn't pay them enough so on this occasion she had to stick to the party line and insist the machine didn't make mistakes!

Whilst I laugh about it and just feel thankful I could help make someone else's day so easily, I also wonder what would have happened if that folded note had been pointing in the direction of the counting arm as it would then have been counted twice and I would have got £30 instead of £50.... and the woman in the bank would have denied everything, just the same!

I think I'll stick to investing my pennies in lovely lenses

Cheers,
Rob