[orangepeel]

Don't normally pass this stuff on but this is quite sickening.



The video - glumbert.com - Dolphin massacre in Japan

The petition - Stop the dolphin and whale killings in Taiji Petition

[Hacker]

I am quite shocked at what I just viewed. Thank you very much for posting that, I've signed the petition, not that it will make any difference.

[Rob Barron]

I find this kind of thing tears me in two as I have conflicting feelings. On the one hand I love dolphins, have swum underwater with wild dolphins and just had a fantastic time connecting with one while diving off Swanage Bay. I am against the mistreatment of any animal, be they dolphins or whatever else.

On the other side of the coin, I do not gush over animals, I eat them most meals so it would be a bit hypocritical to then be cooing over how cute they are and things. So on the surface of things I definitely hate what i saw in that video, despite the fact it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

The problem is, I also believe strongly that we should not apply morality values onto other cultures just because they conflict with our own. I hate it when other nationals tell me how I should live me life as a Brit so I cannot justify telling other people how they should behave on the grounds of morality. Most Japanese see a dolphin as 'just an over-grown fish!' which despite being wrong biologically highlights their dispassionate approach to wildlife compared to the 'nation of animal lovers' that the Brits are supposed to be.

Dolphins are senscient beings and so feel pain both physically and emotionally, hence they feel fear as well as feeling the pain of being hacked with machetes and things as seen here. However, they see dolphins simply as 'food' and the video commentator is wrong to say the term 'whale meat' is misapplied. It is wrong if you use English but in Japanese the term 'whale' is understood to mean any of the species that we would separate into whales and dolphins. Whale meat and dolphin meat is one and the same as they eat it the same way.

It is very hard to understand how they can treat dolphins like this but then I guess it is hard for me to understand how Spaniards can run bulls through the streets and then when they are exhausted stick swords in them and let them die slowly. By the same token, Koreans eat dogs, the French inject frogs with hormones to make their hind legs artificially large and then hack their legs off while still alive to create the delicacy we know as frogs legs, Swiss and other Europeans consider horse meat a delicacy and we Brits cram thousands of chickens in small cages giving them no room to even fall down when they die and pretend that we got rid of cock fighting, dog fighting and so on years ago when in fact it happens in many rural communities throughout Britain.

Most people love to see dolphins but are we being somewhat blinkered in recoiling with horror when we see this treatment being handed out to them whilst ignoring the goings on in our own back yards?

Food for thought anyway if you'll excuse the pun.

Cheers,
Rob

ps I HAVE signed the petition but if I am honest it is to assuage my own conscience more than any belief that anything will actually be done about it.

[ralph]

I can agree that we are no better than any other culture, we eat meat. What i cannot agree on is the fact that this is a disgraceful way to treat any living animal if this was happening in this country it would at least be humane!!!! I am a big lover of dolphins and whales and have signed many petitions like this one to stop the unnecessary killing of these highly intelligent and social animals. The trouble is Japan and Norway blatantly flaunt rules set, claiming accidental capture etc. How can you justify needing over 1000 animals for research purposes alone?!!!. Also every winter off the uk shores hundreds are killed in fishing nets which could be modified but the spanish and french fleets decide not to. I cannot see this changing until the people we elect to government stop buggering about and actually put some proper pressure onto these governments. These cultures should be educated towards using sustainable sources instead of worrying about a few potions to keep it up!!! I do eat meat but i would'nt eat anything that would end in the extinction of a species. Many japanese etc think this practice is barbaric but like everything else until they become the majority nothing will happen!!!!!!!!!

Before you comment i do respect other people's cultures but they should respect mine and allow my grandchildren the pleasure of seeing these animals in the wild like i have done many times.Sorry for the rant and rave but this is a subject that i am quite passionate about and i apoligise in advance if i offend anyone

[Dave]

Signed & have to say I'm against any goverments of countries, that allow this level of suffering on an animal , including our own country Humans have a lot to answer for

[Markulous]

Well, I would've signed until I read what I was actually agreeing to sign. If the author could just have stuck to the point (the rounding up and killing in an unnecessary and cruel manner) and not gone off into mercury/cadmium poisoning, etc. (which kills us just as effectively as dolphins).

And, for the record, I've signed and supported anti-whaling petitions, as well as the 'dolphin friendly' tuna initiatives

[Charlotte]

The video made me sick to my stomach, but I made myself watch it. Then, of course, I signed the petition. Maybe it will make a difference + maybe it won't, but if we do not at least attempt to be heard, we are then seen as condoning the behaviour, aren't we, and then it will definitely carry on, won't it, if nobody ever objects. I do feel strongly about this, although I have never actively involved myself in any sort of protest Not a religious type, but I do pray that this type of brutality to ALL animals that is going on around the world (dolphins are not alone in this) will stop. Futile perhaps, + wishing don't make it so, but if we don't even bother to stop for a minute to wish it would stop, then we ought to be ashamed of ourselves. There, said my piece

[Dave]

Unfortunately it's usually money that talks...... if everyone stopped buying Japanese cars, they would listen...but other than drastic actions like that you feel you are just

[_MB_]

Watching anything like that is always going to be uncomfortable. Had they used an abattoir gun would this have made it more palatable? Do we kick up as much of a fuss about Halal butchery (same thing but with livestock)? They do the same thing every year to Pilot whales in the Faroes and have done for hundreds of years, apparently sustainably. If you thought that video was gory imagine what its like when its done by hand with hooks and rope to an animal about 4 times the size. Although this happens much closer to home there is not the regular outcry as happens with Japan.

Would I personally do this to a dolphin? No chance. Have I done it to a trout? Yes. Is there a difference? I don't know the answer to that one.

I enjoyed the news that whaling fleet had to come home early but I just cannot bring myself to condemn the principle of hunting a plentiful population of animals, regardless of how gruesome it is when you actually see it. If those dolphins are endangered it would of course change my outlook but I doubt they are. Pulling great whites out the water, lopping their fins off and chucking them back to spend a few weeks dying on the seabed upsets me more.

[Rob Barron]

This is a fascinating thread and interestingly, despite people having a variety of views, I find myself agreeing majoratively with all of them. I do agree with charlotte's point that it is no good wishing these things away, we have to make our voices heard whenever possible.

However, and I seriously hope I am not taking this too far off-topic and if I am Crew, please feel free to post it into a different thread, I do find it hard to believe that petitions ever do a huge amount to stop these things because those without ears simply will not listen!

I have never hidden the fact that I am a Christian though I have never preached on here and am not about to start now, but many here will be away that this month marks the 200th anniversary of the Abolition of Slavery Law that was brought in by the persistence of William Wilberforce and the then Prime Minister William Pitt. If you want the historical background to this fight for humanity, please go and see the superb film 'Amazing Grace' currently in the cinema.

Why am I mentioning it here? Simple: if despite the fact this law came into effect in the UK 200 years ago we still have people around the world being snatched from their homes and homelands and being brought to this country to work as prostitutes entirely against their well but on threat of death to members of their family should they refuse, what chance the end to killing of Dolphins in Japan? I do care about the plight of this beautiful animal but I must be honest and say I care about people a lot more and am more prepared to put my time and efforts into seeking action to stop modern day slavery and abuse of innocent human lives.

While a child in Sudan is still today being sold for $50 as a slave and double that if a girl of 12 because she can be raped as often as her master wants entirely legally within that country (and that is by no means the only country where this is happening) I despair of a world that knows it is happening but does nothing to stop it. Why do governments of relatively adfvanced societies in Europe insist on trotting out the worn out lines they are fed by these corrupt regimes and expect us to believe them? Documentary evidence has been available to any politician who cares to watch it for some years now, gained at great risk to the lives of the film-makers concerned, yet instead they simply say 'We have been reassured by the Sudanese Government that slavery is no longer taking place.'

Look folks, I am ok with heights but my horse is getting extremely high here so I am going to get down from it before I need a parachute! Sorry if I go on a bit but this sort of thing is where my passions really come out and I no way apologise for wanting as many people as possible to be alerted to the amount of human suffering that is still happening today, before our very eyes. After all, do we not all love a bargain, even if we do try to avoid thinking of the fact that someone somewhere in the supply chain that has brought me this bargain must be working very long hours for very law money to let it happen? My wife and I have taken a decision that we will no longer look for the cheapest item available unless we are certain of the fact that the source producers have been paid a price fitting their work. I know it is not much but it's a start.

Look out below, I'm coming down.... ahhhhh..... bump!

[Charlotte]

Originally Posted by Rob Barron

... However, and I seriously hope I am not taking this too far off-topic and if I am Crew, please feel free to post it into a different thread, I do find it hard to believe that petitions ever do a huge amount to stop these things because those without ears simply will not listen!

No, but they do create awareness, + if 1% of 10,000 (or however many) people who sign the petition - or more importantly see it - are spurred into action, then that is a step in the right direction

Originally Posted by Rob Barron

... I do care about the plight of this beautiful animal but I must be honest and say I care about people a lot more and am more prepared to put my time and efforts into seeking action to stop modern day slavery and abuse of innocent human lives.

I hear what you're saying Rob, + yes this does belong in its own thread. They are two separate issues, one is nothing to do with the other. Therefore, why does it have to be one or the other? What I mean to say is, you can care about both plights without comparing them, in importance/urgency/priority/whatever. They are both important in the big picture

[Rob Barron]

Not sure I can separate them Charlotte. There are only so many hours in a day I can use to write letters of protest, only so many pounds in my bank account I can give to charities and so forth. I therefore choose to only give my money to charities directly affecting people be that medical research, care services, or whatever.

That is why I put it as part of this thread, just to say that as much as I wish I was Superman and could change the whole world by flying round it backwards at speed, I am only human. BUT I entirely agree that being one person does not mean I can't be effective. As Mother Teresa said when asked how on earth she intended to feed all the poor and starving children of India, she replied: 'One at a time!'

I am not in the slightest critical of peopel supporting animal charities, it is each to their own and we all have different priorities and things which is what makes the goodwill stretch a lot further so that is fine. But no, I can't give substantive support to both animal welfare and human welfar needs so my personal choice is to opt for the latter.

Cheers,
Rob

[Charlotte]

I didn't mean you should personally donate to or try to single-handedly alleviate all of the suffering worldwide, Rob But I get your drift