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Old 26-10-2009, 21:01   #1 (permalink)
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Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Right as you may know my main hobby is keeping my marine fish-tank.

The photos below therefore are typical of what I get from my camera.

The first shot is taken without flash and the rest are using my speed-flash.

None of the images have been edited at all apart from converting to jpg from raw. I used a medium conversion rate to keep the file-size down but I think you get the picture.







Could anyone suggest how I can get some better results. I would like to see some more detail on the fish etc.

Any ideas guys?
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Old 26-10-2009, 21:42   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

First off...all your images are over the size limit of 1000px on the longest side, if you could resize I'd be grateful.

With regard to the image quality I find it ironic that the first shot, without flash, looks better lit that the others shot with flash. One of the flash gurus will be along but I would suggest a well lit tank to start with and then think about flash.
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Old 26-10-2009, 21:59   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Sod the flash, and go for a bright set of spotlights, with diffusers....
I am working on a "Submersible" setup for my pond at the moment, and one thing my Koi do NOT like, is the flash gun....
If, however, I set up my 500watt floodlight over the pond, after a few mins, they get used to it, and that provides enough illumination to grab some half decent shots that way....
I am working on some better lighting, but, I have found fish react better to constant illumination than to flash..... they get spooked with flash.
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Old 26-10-2009, 22:07   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepheno View Post
First off...all your images are over the size limit of 1000px on the longest side, if you could resize I'd be grateful.

With regard to the image quality I find it ironic that the first shot, without flash, looks better lit that the others shot with flash. One of the flash gurus will be along but I would suggest a well lit tank to start with and then think about flash.
I though that using photobucket the pixel size was automatically set by the site. If not I will resize them.

Bear in mind because I grow hard corals the lighting is pretty good. I have 300w of 10k Metal Halide lighting which is fairly good. I also have 100w of Actinic Blue lighting to bring out the colour of the fish and corals.

I am eagerly awaiting some replies from the flash gurus!
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Old 26-10-2009, 22:15   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepheno View Post
First off...all your images are over the size limit of 1000px on the longest side, if you could resize I'd be grateful.

With regard to the image quality I find it ironic that the first shot, without flash, looks better lit that the others shot with flash. One of the flash gurus will be along but I would suggest a well lit tank to start with and then think about flash.

Right I've resized. Can you confirm that they are now 1000px wide please so that I know the photobucket edit has worked?
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Old 26-10-2009, 22:34   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasondh View Post
Right I've resized. Can you confirm that they are now 1000px wide please so that I know the photobucket edit has worked?
The last one is fine the others are still just over. Regards the flash, Silver Dragon said exactly what I was thinking, no flash just some diffused spots.
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Old 26-10-2009, 22:51   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stepheno View Post
The last one is fine the others are still just over. Regards the flash, Silver Dragon said exactly what I was thinking, no flash just some diffused spots.
Tried again. Should all now be less than 900px!

Diffused spots sound expensive!
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Old 26-10-2009, 23:40   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

The first thing that occurred to me was - as Silver Dragon pointed out - that it is not kind to fish/animals to use flash, especially at close proximity.

My second thought is: why would you want to use flash/lighting at all, when you got great results with no flash + disappointing results with flash
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Old 27-10-2009, 07:58   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Diffused spots sound expensive!
Nope... just get some "Security light" type spots, and make your own diffusers... as long as its not too close, something like scrunched up cellophane in front of the spot will work as a diffuser, Tracing paper even...
Just, as I say, not TOO close... them lights get damn warm......
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Old 27-10-2009, 20:01   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte View Post
The first thing that occurred to me was - as Silver Dragon pointed out - that it is not kind to fish/animals to use flash, especially at close proximity.

My second thought is: why would you want to use flash/lighting at all, when you got great results with no flash + disappointing results with flash
I want to get a lot more detail on the fish close up.

They have some texture on there skin which is not being picked up due to the exposure time of the shots.

I'd like to find a way to speed up the shutter to stop the blur that is normally there.

If you look at the photo of the Regal Tang (Blue Fish) under the eye you can see some skin texture. You would not get that without the flash because of the exposure time of the shot. It the fish are moving and believe me they can move the blur means that 99% of your shots are disregarded.

The full tank shot does show some blur of the same fish if you look closely.

I am thinking the diffused lighting might be worth looking at. Any ideas on level ect?
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Old 27-10-2009, 20:38   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasondh View Post
I'd like to find a way to speed up the shutter to stop the blur that is normally there.
Raise the ISO. I've used 1000 ISO at night with my D70s and got good results.

Nikon D70s / Nikkor 28-200 vr / 1/10 f5.3 -2/3 EV ISO 1000 95mm

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Old 27-10-2009, 21:01   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

What ever lights you use don't go square on to the glass, you will get the lights reflected square on to the camera. You will always have some problem with suspended particles reflecting the light back. Consider putting another pane of glass in the tank to restrict the movement of the fish to make the DOF problems easier, a long time ago I did that with some success.
The fish I was photographing at the time were Apistogramma Ramerisi ( if that's how you spell it, it was a long time ago)
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Old 28-10-2009, 03:05   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

In the film days I had fresh water tanks, mostly with cichlids. I used a macro lens tight against the glass and a speedlight the same way. Worked pretty well. I also put the flash in a plastic bag and submerged it just enough to get it below the surface. That also worked but the light is from the top so not always the best illumination. Try this trick-turn off the filters/pumps briefly, let the sediment settle and then shoot, it will take some time but eliminate the back scatter. I'm not a fan of hot lights. Time to experiment !

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Old 28-10-2009, 11:01   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Downside to flash is that you can end up with rather flat results, the reverse of what you're after. Having said that, a little attention to levels would transform those shots taken with flash (probably a little judicious Curves to up the contrast)
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Old 28-10-2009, 11:01   #15 (permalink)
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Homebrew alternatives "Work in progress"

Hot lights.... depends on how close you get.....

I am still a fan of raising the ambient light behind diffusers to brighten the whole "room" from many directions to get good detail...
I say "Room", as the pond I am working in is 10ft by 10ft over 5 ft depth, and 3,000 to 4,000 gallons(uk) of water... its an outside "room" for my fish...
In my "Project" for an underwater setup, I have been using a toy submarine, to see the fish's response to a foreign object... I dont want them scared, I want them close and feeling safe, so they stay around when the shutter goes off..

Having got a torch (waterproof) in there, they shied away at the first introduction, but when it stopped moving, they either ignored or investigated.
The Sub was the same.... they investigated, but accepted it...
It also has two LED bulbs on it, and they didnt seem bothered.
I strapped a couple of flashing lights on, and they did NOT like that at all....
In fact, instead of accepting "Just another fish" as the sub had been, they all wented away to hidey-holes and wouldnt come out until it was gone.... so that Idea went down not so well...

I have since tried with some underwater spots....
I am not a great fan of these in "Normal" use, as they would alter the light balance in the pond, even fish need to "sleep" (they have a sense of day and night) the bulbs heat up as well, which alters the pond temps, so I needed a temporary solution.
So...
I had a friend sand-blast a couple of glass jars to create a diffuser effect, and sealed low-energy bulbs inside....

This also has given me a "Side project", as the sand blasting worked amazingly well...
I took a photo frame, and a belt sander.... and sanded the glass....
"Home brew" diffuser for placing in front of spot lights..... and, it works............
You can substitute PVC for the Glass if you dont have a belt-sander, as it works just as well, and is easier to sandpaper to get the same result.... I have done this with a couple of smaller bits, cut to size, and they work on the flash gun.... that is a separate subject, but worth mentioning...
Also, when using this type of diffuser, you dont get the same amount of light... "Guestimates" at about three quarters of normal illumination or less, so camera settings have to be altered accordingly.

The low-energy bulbs in the pond worked quite well.
The fish took a little while to get used to them, so its a a case of introduce them and go have a cup of coffee, but they accepted them, and even investigated a little...
(I have a bunch of VERY nosy Koi carp....)
I am now getting enough light to get shots of fish at depth (Five foot plus) on a high iso...
I may try some more lights, to see how that works.

So what I have learned... Flash?.. makes fish go away...
HOT lights too close?... not too good for the fish either...
Low-energy?... as long as you source the right bulb..."Mini-spiral" UV bulbs, about one third of the wattage rating of incandescent are the equivalent, DONT get hot... mildly warm, but you can touch them without harm, LED?... expensive for the equivalent in wattage...low light settings, if your camera has them, are the best, high iso, patience,

I am now trying to make a waterproof "Rig" for the camera... more on that when it starts to work... so far, I havnt tried the camera underwater, I think I am a little scared of risking the thing, but an old sealed fish tank, upside down, with some paper inside on a fixing where the camera would be has proven quite stable...
So far, as the tank is naturally wanting to float, I have to work out the buoyancy equation... a couple of bricks on the top are ok to a point, but the tend to fall off when I move it... I am trying this "In the bath", as falling bricks are not good for fish health either... they tend to get upset...
I am waiting for some silicon glue that I have used to secure the bricks to set... if that works, I may be in business...
When I have got that bit right, I just need to finish the remote trigger and get up the nerve to set it up and go shooting....
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Old 28-10-2009, 15:57   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Excellent story SD,,,Goood luck
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Old 28-10-2009, 19:26   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Thanks all.

Some things to be going on with there
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Old 18-01-2010, 18:47   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

Hi Jason

I went to the Reeefkeepers weekend in Pakefield in 2008, whilst i was there, I asked Ron Hessing and Anthony Calfo for a couple of tips another one they mentioned is using custom white balance and also off-camera flash, a bit awkward but can produce some great pictures, get the nissus to hold the flash over the tank, sure she won't mind.

Paul
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Old 18-01-2010, 19:21   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Advice Please of Photographing Fish Tanks!

You will have to try all sorts with everything you have and then make a decision....one thing I would do first and that is to up the ISO to 800 and keep uping it till the quality goes then pick the best results that suit you.... afterwards you can do a lot of work on the pictures in P/Shop or what ever you use.....
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