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General photography questions and answers: Discuss The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?...Olympus and Panasonic have announced the 'Micro Four Thirds' system... http://www.pixalo.com/community/news...tem-26353.html This is not an SLR - it does away ...
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Old 08-08-2008, 16:44   #1 (permalink)
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The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Olympus and Panasonic have announced the 'Micro Four Thirds' system...

http://www.pixalo.com/community/news...tem-26353.html

This is not an SLR - it does away with the mirror and pentaprism, so you compose using the LCD or an EVF as on a compact camera.

Is this a sign of things to come? How many of you with 'Live View' DSLRs use the LCD more than the viewfinder, and would it matter if the optical viewfinder was replaced by an electronic one fed by the sensor?

In the past, the objection to EVFs was the lag which made panning and sports photography difficult, but is that still an issue? Is the end of the road for the SLR now in sight?

Please discuss!
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Old 08-08-2008, 16:54   #2 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Until the EVF can provide as clear a view as an optical viewfinder - not to mention similar resolution - then I think that the mirror / pentaprism method that dSLR's use will prevail.

There are also a ton of other issues that need to be resolved before EVF's will replace standard optical viewfinders in the majority of cameras, but I'm tired and need a cuppa after a long days shooting
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Old 08-08-2008, 16:56   #3 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Why not an LCD in a viewfinder (not the rubbish LCD on the back) if it's good enough quality? It was one of the things I missed when I moved "up" from my Fuji 602Z to my dSLR Sigma SD10, the electronic image in the viewfinder which could show you all manner of wonderful things but best of all, the resultant image after taking the shot

Personally I'm waiting for the 'infinite DOF' version (which'll be an offshoot) which exists already but only for a small sensor and in-camera variable HDR (but that'll have to be much better than existing HDR apps which are rubbish!). This'll then be the ultimate P&S!
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Old 08-08-2008, 17:27   #4 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Holding the camera to the eye to look through the veiwfinder adds added stability. Try holding a 1D with a 500f4 attached, at arms length, to look at the at the rear display, and then follow a bird in flight!!!!
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Old 08-08-2008, 18:28   #5 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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Holding the camera to the eye to look through the veiwfinder adds added stability. Try holding a 1D with a 500f4 attached, at arms length, to look at the at the rear display, and then follow a bird in flight!!!!
Exactly my thoughts.
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Old 08-08-2008, 18:42   #6 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

With the present EVF's its impossible to tell if the view is properly focused.

The way in which lcd displays are made up , I can't see a good enough RGB pixel count and refresh rates to be anything like as good as the current optical DSLR arrangements.
When that happens I shall probably be 6 foot under.
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Old 08-08-2008, 20:49   #7 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Some people say they check focus by zooming in with Live View, which they find more accurate than using an optical viewfinder without a split-circle or microprism focusing aid.

The way I see it is that there are those who appreciate the benefits of an optical viewfinder and those who do not, or who perhaps don't take the sort of photos (action shots) where an optical viewfinder is an advantage. Maybe EVFs will improve so there is no noticeable lag or stutter.

But surely it all boils down to cost, especially with 'consumer' cameras. An interchangeable lens camera without mirror, prism or shutter mechanism will be much cheaper to produce than an SLR. I can see the manufacturers touting the benefits of doing away with 'old-fashioned' mirrors and shutters - silent operation, no wear, no limit on flash sync speed, no mechanical limit on burst rate, movie mode...

I wouldn't mind betting that within the next five years the successors to the 450D and D40, and perhaps even the 40D and D80, will no longer be SLRs.
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Old 08-08-2008, 20:59   #8 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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Some people say they check focus by zooming in with Live View, which they find more accurate than using an optical viewfinder without a split-circle or microprism focusing aid.
Yep , when items are static, Live view at 10x zoom ensures pin sharp focus. there is no way you can compete with that through viewfinder
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Old 09-08-2008, 00:57   #9 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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Yep , when items are static, Live view at 10x zoom ensures pin sharp focus. there is no way you can compete with that through viewfinder
I concur, especially as I battle to check focus/sharpness through the viewfinder without my glasses on, which I find very uncomfy to wear for taking photo's. And no smart remarks about my pic's being OOF
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Old 09-08-2008, 01:31   #10 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

I can't bear the thought ...still learning how to use this camera properly.....
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Old 09-08-2008, 07:03   #11 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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I concur, especially as I battle to check focus/sharpness through the viewfinder without my glasses on, which I find very uncomfy to wear for taking photo's. And no smart remarks about my pic's being OOF

Surely you adjust the dioptre thingy provided for the optical DSLR cameras to suit Charlotte.The problem I find is when using my wifes Nikon which has LCD view only I have to have my reading glasses on to do anything with it.
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Old 09-08-2008, 10:46   #12 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Adjusted the dioptre as far as it'll go Brian. I'm ok with macro's + close ups, but anything further away can be awkward.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:13   #13 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

The viewfinder dioptre adjustment is usually only +/-2 or 3. My specs are approx -8 dioptres. Also the viewfinder doesn't allow for astigmatism, so it's OK for people who are slightly myopic, but not otherwise.
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:24   #14 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Quote:
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Adjusted the dioptre as far as it'll go Brian. I'm ok with macro's + close ups, but anything further away can be awkward.
You have a very nice Nikon kit Charlotte, does it not have an accessory add on to extend the dioptre range as the Canon DLSR's have?
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:30   #15 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

You can get replacement eyepieces for Nikon cameras with specific dioptre values. These will cover outside the range of the built-in adjustment.

http://www.nikonusa.com/fileuploads/..._CompChart.pdf

See the bottom of this page

Nikon Eyepieces Canon Eyepieces Pentax Eyepieces Kenko Eyepieces Zigview Eyepieces UK

Here is another

Nikon Diopter +3.0 Correction Eyepiece for D50/70/70S/100/200, N50/60/65/70/80/6006, Pronea, FM10 cameras

Cheaper here

2940 Nikon Diopter 0 for D200 / D300 / D80 / D70 / D60 / D50 / D40/D40X / N50 / N60 / N65 / N70 / N80 / 6006 / Pronea / FM10
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Old 09-08-2008, 11:39   #16 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

You're right Brian, there are alternative viewfinders as well, and I've thought about investigating the possibility of getting contact lenses just for photography.

Edit: This crossed with yours Graham - thanks for those links
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Old 09-08-2008, 12:20   #17 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

The downside of an lcd is the power drain, well, that's one of them!
Mind you, no mirror to slap around would be a bonus!
Thet said, I guess some can remember the pellicle mirror Canon!
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Old 09-08-2008, 19:47   #18 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

I guess it will come down to preference. My first digital camera has an electronic viewfinder and I absolutely hated it. I much prefer being able to actually see what I am taking a picture of so I seriously doubt I would want to change.

Don't forget when the first digital cameras came out everyone said that film was dead but it still seems to be going strong, it just gets used for more specific purposes now.
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Old 09-08-2008, 21:43   #19 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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Originally Posted by Soupdragon View Post
The downside of an lcd is the power drain
Very good point.

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when the first digital cameras came out everyone said that film was dead but it still seems to be going strong, it just gets used for more specific purposes now.
Like what?
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Old 09-08-2008, 22:31   #20 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

It,s just another bridge camera,with a bigger sensor,good addition but will not take over from DSLR,s.
Take a few sales though from people thinking of more controle ,but do not want a big DSLR.
As for EVT,s I have one on the Canon S3IS and thats part of the reason I moved on,
They are not so good....
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Old 09-08-2008, 22:42   #21 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

If I could not use an optical viewfinder, I think I would give up photography. I find the LCD screen on my current camera (I know they are a little better now) next to useless. I cannot see it in sunlight and it is very frustrating when I want to set AEB mode or format a CF card, for example. I have to find some deep shadow or go into the nearest building.


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Old 10-08-2008, 11:00   #22 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

These are more than just a bridge camera with a larger sensor - they have interchangeable lenses, and that's the critical feature. In film days there was little alternative to an SLR if you wanted to see what the film was seeing, but that's different now.

Some of the latest LCD screens are viewable even in bright sunlight.

As for electronic viewfinders and how good they are, what about professional video cameras? They have EVFs and seem OK for moving subjects.
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Old 10-08-2008, 12:36   #23 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

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These are more than just a bridge camera with a larger sensor - they have interchangeable lenses, and that's the critical feature. In film days there was little alternative to an SLR if you wanted to see what the film was seeing, but that's different now.

Some of the latest LCD screens are viewable even in bright sunlight.

As for electronic viewfinders and how good they are, what about professional video cameras? They have EVFs and seem OK for moving subjects.
There is a choice though Silk,most studio broadcast cameras can have Optical, CRT or LCD colour or monochrome viewfinders. Switching a colour EVF to the green only or mono is the only way to follow a golf ball in the air when used at OB's.
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Old 10-08-2008, 13:48   #24 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

Well I guess you could do the same with an EVF on a still camera, and who knows what improvements in LCD/EVF technology there may be in the next few years?

I'm just thinking that, for the 'mass market' at least, a non-SLR interchangeable lens camera would have great appeal and would also be much cheaper than a DSLR. Live View is perhaps a step along that path, and not so long ago we thought it would be impossible to have a live preview with a DSLR.

The camera manufacturers want to get us hooked on their brand, and once we are they can sell us lenses and accessories that won't fit anything else. The budget end of the DSLR market is very competitive, so what better way for Canon, Nikon or whoever to gain a new convert than by offering a camera that can use all the lenses etc, but costs half as much as a 450D or D40?
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Old 20-08-2008, 16:48   #25 (permalink)
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Re: The beginning of the end of the (D)SLR?

i dunno,,, iv never trusted live views as much as the unedited veiw you get from the slr pentaprism systems
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