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Old 19-01-2008, 23:17   #1 (permalink)
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Canon 400d pin broke loose

1st off i'd like to say hi to all, long time no see(very long time)...been very busy of late and have not had time to visit the site. im glad to see its still going strong! but then with the comunity here im not suprised

ok down to the nitty gritty.

my brother purchased a 400d just over 7 months ago from currys, its still in perfect condition other than a contact pin the the compact flash card slides onto.

what looks like has happened from what i can work out anyway is a pin has been pulled loose from its setting when the card has been removed from the camera, its lying between the 2 lines of pins inside the card slot.

we got in touch with canon and told them what is wrong and without even having the camera in to take a look threw a wild accusation that he put, well forced the card in backwards.

now i can say this....if this was the case i would say that 1, the compact flash card would be damaged...2, the feeding slot would be damaged and 3, all the pins not just the one would be bend out of shape.

canon have point blank refused to take the camera in and take a look and said that its customer error and that he's on his own and the warrenty wont cover the single pin thats been pulled out. they also refused to accept the simple fact that every camera off the production line cant be perfect and some faulty cameras will raise their ugly heads.

im just wondering what if anything i can do about this, as the poor kid spent over 750 quid on this kit and its gone wrong in under 7 months and you can see the camera has been well taken care off...there isnt a mark on it.

thanks in advance for any feedback on this problem.
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Old 19-01-2008, 23:31   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

get in touch with them again as tell them if they do not take the camera back then u will be getting in touch with the local trading standards office, and they will be handling the case for you.

you can also try take it back to currys as they should cover it for 12 months statutory guarantee.

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Old 19-01-2008, 23:31   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Sorry to hear of your Brother's problem. First thing I'd do is to see if the card will actually go into the slot the wrong way round (carefully). The card reader I use for CF cards will not allow the card into the slot the wrong way round. If the card was inserted in this way, why is it only one pin that has been displaced?

Second thing is that if the camera has failed within the warranty period, it is the seller that bears responsibility under the sale of goods act. So go and see the Curry's manager.
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Old 19-01-2008, 23:38   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

cheers fiona, we did take it to currys, they said to take it to canon basicaly didnt want to know...i will contact trading standards see what they say.

cant do that till monday tho...ill get back in touch with currys tomoz and see if i can get anymore joy out of them, but thats like getting blood out of a stone, i wont touch currys personaly cus i know there aftercare sucks the big one (had bad problems with them myself in the past), like pc world...i wasnt impressed when my brother told me where he had it from i told him we'd have trouble with currys.

cheers 4 the reply
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Old 19-01-2008, 23:49   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

hey dab...ive got the same camera and ive actualy gone to put the card in the wrong way by not paying attention and i can say that you cant...unless you used a lot of force which would cause a hell of a lot of damage to the camera...id go as far as saying its impossible to do unless you were a complete clown.

as like you point out and what i told currys and canon the camera will not allow you to put it in the wrong way round, i even demonstrated this to the moron behind the counter in currys....i wished the people i have spoken to had the same common sense we obviously have.

cheers 4 your feedback m8
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Old 20-01-2008, 00:55   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

The retailer is responsible as far as I understand the Sales of goods act. Suggest you lean on Curries with threats of trading standards and county courts. It Is just about impossible to put a CF card into a Canon the wrong way without a hammer.
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Old 20-01-2008, 04:15   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

I have no advice about consumer laws in the UK... Unfortunately, I ahve a bit of experience with this problem.

I don't know how it happened in your case (maybe the CF card had a clogged hole?), but when I tried to force a CF card in backwards (yes, I was a total idiot, but I was in a hurry to get this great shot... ::sigh:, that's exactly how it looked afterwards, with the pin bent, so I'm not surprised that that was their first assumption. So, no, it's not -impossible-, I had to really work at it to force it in (did I mention I was an idiot?).

I found directions for taking the Canon apart on the web, but after all the effort in disassembling it, the pin snapped when I tried to straighten it. I have access to a good soldering station now (and a tech to go with it!), and I just might have a go at replacing the CF card reader. I hope you don't have to go to such extremes.
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Old 20-01-2008, 09:52   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwack View Post
I have no advice about consumer laws in the UK... Unfortunately, I ahve a bit of experience with this problem.

I don't know how it happened in your case (maybe the CF card had a clogged hole?), but when I tried to force a CF card in backwards (yes, I was a total idiot, but I was in a hurry to get this great shot... ::sigh:, that's exactly how it looked afterwards, with the pin bent, so I'm not surprised that that was their first assumption. So, no, it's not -impossible-, I had to really work at it to force it in (did I mention I was an idiot?).

I found directions for taking the Canon apart on the web, but after all the effort in disassembling it, the pin snapped when I tried to straighten it. I have access to a good soldering station now (and a tech to go with it!), and I just might have a go at replacing the CF card reader. I hope you don't have to go to such extremes.
Hi Shipwack , Yes keep onto Canon,which branch did you send it,Boreham Wood seems fair warranty work I have had.

You are quite correct Shipwack ,the Compact Flash mounting on my Canan 350D I think the design is ergonomically the wrong way round. The lip on the back edge that is there to help get your finger nail behind it to remove the card when correctly orientated is facing the card cover lid. So I find the natural way to enter the card is round the wrong way!!.

Why don't these manufacturers get feedback from us users? in the prototype developement stages?

Regarding Currys/Dixons customer after sales care, it does not appear in their vocabularly!!
Brian

Last edited by brian wright22; 20-01-2008 at 18:28.
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Old 20-01-2008, 13:46   #9 (permalink)

PLEASE NOTE

I TYPE USING CAPITALS DUE TO A DISABILTY

THANKS FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING
 
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Flipster, I Think As The Camera Is Less Than A Year Old, Then It Is Currys
Responsibility , Under The Sale Of Goods Act. I Do Not Think It Should Be
Up To You To Contact Canon.
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Old 20-01-2008, 13:50   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Woody is totally correct. For you to get anywhere with this you must under UK law go through Currys. If they are not willing to help you must stick to your guns and if they still don't budge then get in touch with trading standards too. They will definitely help you get their attention and make them do the right thing.
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Old 20-01-2008, 14:11   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Amazingly poor service from both Canon and Currys!

As has been said, your contract is with the retailer and they are obliged under the Sale of Goods Act to put right faults that occur within a reasonable period, irrespective of any manufacturer's warranty. If they refuse, you can go to Trading Standards and also (if you bought it with a credit card) to the credit card company since you are covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

Good luck!
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Old 20-01-2008, 15:17   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Just a further point on the legal aspects here: damage caused by the consumer DOES nullify the warranty BUT it is for the manufacturer to prove negligence and they have to have a clear reason for doing so. History is not a reason under law therefore the fact that other people might have damaged something in a certain way does not mean that this becomes the only way in which that damage could be sustained.

You have the law entirely on your side and by refusing to even look at it, Canon are breaking the law as they cannot possibly know how something happened simply by a description over the phone.

Currys MUST act as mediator between you and the manufacturer BUT they do not have t repair the item, only send it back to Canon. The law then states that a repai must be effected 'in a reasonable period' and that is where you can end up in difficulty: what is reasonable?

Either way, you will need to be ready to be without the camera for quite a while, maybe a couple of months.

Always keep in mind though that you are not in the wrong and the law backs you up all the way.

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 20-01-2008, 17:18   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

i have had recent dealing with trading standards on behalf of a friend and as far as they are concerned reasonable time is roughly 28 days.

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Old 20-01-2008, 18:52   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Quote:
Originally Posted by silkstone View Post
Amazingly poor service from both Canon and Currys!

As has been said, your contract is with the retailer and they are obliged under the Sale of Goods Act to put right faults that occur within a reasonable period, irrespective of any manufacturer's warranty. If they refuse, you can go to Trading Standards and also (if you bought it with a credit card) to the credit card company since you are covered by the Consumer Credit Act.

Good luck!
I have found this statement on Wikipedia.

It is possible to bend the male pins of the Compact Flash connector inside the camera. This is an expensive repair which Canon does not offer under warranty. It can happen relatively easily but can be avoided by carefully inserting a new card and feeling for unusual resistance; excessive force is the primary cause but may also be due to the contact surface design of some CF cards. The problem is more of a design issue of the CF card mechanism and can happen in other CF equipped devices.

I think your best way forward is that as the warranty states and lists Canon's lability to their product is always followed by the staement,This does not affect your statury rights. Now there lies a can of worms.
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Old 20-01-2008, 19:09   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Cheers all that have responded to my question, i'll get in touch with trading standards in the morning for him then at least we will have that backing before i lay the law down at currys.

im just hoping that i never get anything like this happen to my camera if this is what i'll get from canon if anything goes wrong with it. i was expecting so much more from whats supposed to be one of the two leading camera manufacturers!! they have realy let the company down on this one.

once more thanks and ill let u know if or when we resolve this farce.
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Old 20-01-2008, 22:20   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Canon 400d pin broke loose

Flipster, your legal rights are with the retailer so you should pursue with Curry's. However, you need to be aware that under the Sale of Goods Act the burden of proof is 6 months. Before 6 months it is for the retailer to either accept that fault and provide a remedy or offer proof that the item was not faulty and had been damaged by the customer. After 6 months it reverses so it is now for the customer to prove that the item is inherently faulty and not damaged by the customer. I do not see what the Trading Standards Office can do as this is a civil dispute between you and Currys; no trading law has been broken. You might take advice from your local Citizens Advice Bureaux but I think that this case will be hard (perhaps not impossible) to win in court.

If you do conclude that it it will be difficult to win in court, then you might try a different approach but similar to that you have already taken. Remain objective, firm but polite and continue to pressure Curry's and Canon holding firmly to your position that there is no way you have damged this camera it must be faulty manufacture. You may find that they decide to take an easy line and make you an offer (canon have a good name to protect). It is unlikely that they will offer a free repair but might share the cost. But I emphasise that you must retain your cool because you can win the staff you speak to over to your point of view and, while they may recite the official line to you, they may actually speak up for you. If you upset them, you just give them the excuse to shut the door and say take us to court then. Best of luck.

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