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General photography questions and answers: Discuss Colour Space...I've had my camera set on Adobe 1998 colour space almost as long as I've had it. I shoot in ...
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Old 03-04-2007, 21:58   #1 (permalink)
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Colour Space

I've had my camera set on Adobe 1998 colour space almost as long as I've had it. I shoot in RAW all of the time and have installed the microsoft XP RAW viewer software on my computer to enable me to see thumbnails without having to laod up a RAW converter.

Recently, my cursor settled on a thumbnail, and the EXIF opened up. I noticed that the embedded colour space was shown as s-RGB! I checked the camera and the setting was still on Adobe 1998.

I checked the colour space on an image in CS2 (which is also set up in adobe 1998), and it seems all is well, as far as I can make out, the image is embedded with adobe 1998.

Can anyone shed any light on this apparent discrepency in the thumbnail? I did wonder if it was something to do with the XP thumbnail viewing software.
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Old 04-04-2007, 00:36   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

I shouldn't think the viewing software is reading the data wrong Graham (but you never know ) Try checking your monitor display settings: r-click > properties > settings > advanced > colour management. It will list the colour management profiles on your system (typically s-RGB + Adobe RGB 1998, and mine shows Huey as well) + it'll highlight the one which is set as default. That's the only thing I can think of, but I wouldn't know why you only get a discrepancy with one photo
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:56   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Charlotte - It is only on the thumbnails that it comes up with sRGB, (all thumbnails), my camera, CS2, printer and monitor are all set to Adobe 1998

If I open an image where the thumbnail shows sRGB, the PS image shows Adobe 1998.

Can you see if your RAW thumbnails do the same?
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Old 04-04-2007, 07:58   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

If I shoot either in sRGB or Adobe the Windows RAW Viewer Metadata shows;

Color Space (As Shot):sRGB IEC61966-2.1

I thought the (As shot) was as shot......either sRGB or Adobe but didn't actually show it (sRGB/Adobe) and the sRGB to the right was just reference to the colour space of the RAW Viewer
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Old 04-04-2007, 15:56   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Dabhand, firstly the colour space setting in your camera is only relevant to JPEG files. It is only when you convert your Raw files do you set the colour space. However, I still set the Camera to Adobe RBG (1998) even though I only use RAW.

When I view my Raw Files using the XP Raw viewer, it indicates that the As Shot mode was Adobe RGB (1998) as is set on my Camera. PhotoShop and other software also confirms this. I thus tried changing the color space in my Camera to sRGB and took a Raw shot just now. The Software I use to transfer the file from Camera to my computer confirmed that this single file has sRGB in the EXIF data wheras all my others have Adobe RGB. The XP Raw viewer also confirmed this.

If you are using Raw, it will not matter anyway but make sure you set your Raw Converter to Adobe RGB. However, it is intriguing as to what is happening in your case. May I suggest that you check the settings in your camera and take a fresh picture and plot its route through the software and see if the colour space is consistent as it is for me or does it change at any stage.
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Old 04-04-2007, 16:34   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Be interested to know if you get to the bottom of it Graham......non of my thumbnails (shot in Adobe) show as shot in Adobe in Microsoft Raw Viewer .
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:23   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Thanks for the input dave and P-E. I'll give this a go as soon as I have a few minutes.
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:25   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Slightly off topic but how many of you use the Windows Raw viewer, do you find it useful and is it a free add-on?

I guess a quick Google search will answer the last question but having the information here will be helpful anyway.

If its free is it worth me adding it into our downloads?
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:30   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Quote:
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Slightly off topic but how many of you use the Windows Raw viewer, do you find it useful and is it a free add-on?

I guess a quick Google search will answer the last question but having the information here will be helpful anyway.

If its free is it worth me adding it into our downloads?
Worth a new thread and a poll?
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:36   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Yup, thats a good idea.

I'll set it up in a minute after I have added it to our downloads section
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Old 04-04-2007, 17:51   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

For anyone that is interested I have started a new thread and poll Here on the Microsoft RAW Image Thumbnailer and Viewer.

Sorry Dabhand for taking your thread
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Old 04-04-2007, 18:30   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

I've just taken some test shots after re-setting the camera to Adobe RGB, checked the RAW converter is Adobe 1998, monitor Adobe 1998, printer is Adobe 1998.

Dropped the test shots into a folder and I hovered the cursor over the thumbnails and the pop-up box said:

colour space (as shot) sRGB IEC61966-2.1

I think an e-mail to Nikon is in order.
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Old 04-04-2007, 18:31   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

I get the same Graham
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Old 04-04-2007, 18:53   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Well after doing a lot of searching I have finally found an image of the RAW viewer showing the colour space as Adobe1998
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Old 04-04-2007, 18:53   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Any other RAW users with this anomoly?

P-E, I assume you are using your Canon, I'm using a Nikon, so it does not seem to be camera specific.

One other thing, I'm using a Corel Photo Downloader that came with my copy of PSP X. I'll try just a straight transfer from a card to the folder next in case it is affecting the colour space.
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Old 04-04-2007, 18:55   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Yes Canon Graham.
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Old 04-04-2007, 19:03   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

I just tried a different memory card to the one I was using........and it now works

Can't see it has anything to do with the card though
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Old 04-04-2007, 19:06   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

That is odd. The card I'm currently using has been formatted with the camera set on Adobe RGB. Maybe I ought to try a different card too.
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Old 04-04-2007, 21:04   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

I have spotted something in my Canon EOS 20D manual which may help explain the problem. According to my manual if you use what it calls Basic Zone settings (that is Portrait, Landscape, Close up, Sports, Night, Flash off and full Auto), then sRGB is set automatically. It is only what Canon call the Creative Zone (Program, TV, AV, Manual and A-DEP) that you can set the colour space. So if you set Adobe RGB and use a mixture of the creative and Basic Zones, you will get a mixture Adobe RGB and sRGB. I have just tried taking a shot in Basic Mode and it is sRGB. However you cannot select RAW for the Basic Zone and the camera reverts to JPEG.

I must say I think that this is daft but I guess Canon are not the only manufacturer doing this. However, I only use the Creative Zone and never use the Basic Zone so it does not affect me. Someone with a lot of experience with a film SLR moving to their first DSLR would probably only use the Creative Zone. However, someone moving from a compact to their first DSLR might start by using the Basic Zone while learning the new skills needed for the Creative Zone.

My impression is that the manufacturers assume that we are either consumers who press and shoot and need to know nothing or professionals who would want to control everything. Developing amateurs get caught in the middle.

I still think that the profile in the Camera will be irrelevant for a RAW file anyway as this is dealt with by the RAW converter unless anyone knows different.
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:08   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Thanks for that Dave. I'll have to check my manual too. Having said that, I usually use Av,Tv or manual.

Good head-scratcher though, keeps us thinking!
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:12   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabhand16 View Post
... One other thing, I'm using a Corel Photo Downloader that came with my copy of PSP X. I'll try just a straight transfer from a card to the folder next in case it is affecting the colour space.
Just caught up with this thread Graham. I can't help by confirming or otherwise if I get the same problem, because I leave my camera set to sRGB + same with all my software + monitor settings (I see no point using Adobe RGB as you can't print the full colour spectrum (most home printers don't support all the colours in Adobe + printer would just interpolate, which is best avoided) + the web can't show all those colours either. In fact, it's only practical to use Adobe RGB if you're having your photo's professionally printed, + I don't mean at Boots However, I digress ...)

HOWEVER, your comment above sparked a thought ... check the options in your download software, in your case Corel Photo Downloader. In Picture Project which I use there is an option "Embed ICC Colour Profile during transfer" which I leave checked. Is it checked in yours?? That just could be the answer (hopefully) If it is not checked, then the metadata does not contain what colour space you used in camera + software will simply go by your display settings.

If this is not the answer, + if it's only your thumbnails that show the wrong colour space, then I take back my initial assumption + think that maybe it is your thumbnail viewer that doesn't recognise Adobe RGB. Soooo have you tried viewing thumbnails with a different programme ??
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Old 04-04-2007, 22:53   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Thanks for the input Charlotte. too late now to try anything, but I'll check your suggestions ASAP - hopefully tomorrow.
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:55   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Unfortunately I am a little busy until late this afternoon but I will install the software later today and report back with my situation to see if that will helps solve the issue. Its a very interesting problem
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Old 05-04-2007, 07:59   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Colour Space

Well it would appear it was working with the other card I had in as well

I hadn't noticed that the Adobe shots were loading at the top of the folder seperately from the sRGB one's .

So I was taking shots of the same subject.....downloading and looking at the last picture in the folder not realising the one shot in Adobe had downloaded to the top of the folder

Sorry Graham if my stupidity had sent you on a wild goose chase

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