Pixalo Photography Community

Go Back   Pixalo Photography Community > Photography Forums > General photography questions and answers

General photography questions and answers: Discuss Copyright issues?...Hi everyone. New to the forum so forgive me if this is in the wrong category. I have a question ...
Welcome to the Pixalo Photography Community. As a Guest you are free to browse the site, but see what extras you get as a Member here.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 26-03-2013, 20:56   #1 (permalink)
New here
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 3
TN406 is on a distinguished roadTN406 is on a distinguished road

Image edit - ASK
User's Gallery
Question Copyright issues?

Hi everyone. New to the forum so forgive me if this is in the wrong category. I have a question regarding ownership of photos taken by a former employee and being used to promote his new business..is this legal?

I run a fishing charter company, and he worked for me for 10 years, and has now quit and started his own company. He took the photos while working for me with my cameras and my clients and is now using them on his new website and other advertising materials. These were intended for use on my website and advertising materials only. Any ideaswhether or not I have any legal recourse?
TN406 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2013, 21:37   #2 (permalink)
Pixalo Crew
 
stepheno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bingley
Posts: 10,668
stepheno is a jewel in the rough
stepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the roughstepheno is a jewel in the rough

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Re: Copyright issues?

Hi, copyright can be a minefield but in the circumstances you mention I would think the photos belong to you/your company. However, what do you do about it? I would think.....

1 a polite, civil request to cease using and return your photos
2 then a solicitor's letter
3 then an injunction

You could also consider that the fact he has your/your company photos could be construed as theft of company property. Is that then criminal activity? Just my thoughts and do wait for other members opinions - I know there are a couple of members who have had their photos used without their permission.

Also I would recommend a search of Pixalo with "Copyright" as the key word. Good luck.
__________________

stepheno is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2013, 23:59   #3 (permalink)
Growing roots
 
fionaB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland
Posts: 10,528
fionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of light
fionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of lightfionaB is a glorious beacon of light

Image edit - ASK
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

agree with stephano. the situation you describe is one of a very few where the copyright does not necessarily belong ot the photographer, however i think t has to be plain that the images where for YOUR companies use and you PAID him to take them or taking them was within his employment remit
fionaB is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 01:41   #4 (permalink)
Pixalo Crew
 
dabhand16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunstable Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 30,318
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

In the circumstances that you describe, the photos were taken for your use by your employee with your kit, so I would think like the others that they are your images.

How has he got access to them? Has he got copies, or were they lifted from your site?

There is also the issue of the people in the images agreeing for them to be used. I assume that you had permission to use them for your site, but I bet that he has not got their permission to use them.

Stephano is right though. Copyright is a can of worms and it is best to try to sort it out amicably or it might become very expensive.

How about allowing him to use them provided that they carry a 'photos by kind permission of xyz fishing company' on them, or 'these photos are not actually of abc fishing' and/or charge a royalty for their use?
__________________
Graham
dabhand16 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 08:07   #5 (permalink)
Been here a while
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Solihull, West Midlands
Posts: 250
PeteT is a jewel in the rough
PeteT is a jewel in the rough

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

Before I give an opinion, I'll just mention that I am NOT a lawyer in possession of a valid practising certificate and therefore am not able to give (and am not giving) legal advice. If you need that then you should consult a lawyer. Having said that I have nearly 15 years experience in commercial contracts, including dealing with some copyright issues.

The situation is not as clear cut as it might first appear. Copyright vests in the creator of the work (the employee) immediately the work is created. This is why most large companies (or small companies who have taken good advice) have a clause in their contracts of employment under which the employee agrees to assign his copyright in all copyrightable works created during the course of their employment to the employer and to give up all their rights to it.

So the question is - did you have a contract of employment with the individual (if not you really should have) and did it mention copyright? If it did who did the copyright get assigned to (employee or employer). If no contract of employment then copyright probably belongs to the employee. The fact that he used your equipment to create the copyrighted work is not relevant. The mere fact that you provided the camera etc does not automatically give you any rights to the copyright works.

The second aspect though is whether the ex-employee is misrepresenting the photos e.g. claiming (or implying) they are of his boat and clients rather than of yours, which could be a fraudulent misrepresentation (at this point consult a lawyer if you need advice).

I suspect in practice there is little you can do unless you are prepared to put lots of money in the pockets of lawyers. Personally I would put it down to experience, ensure any new employees have the relevant clause in their contracts of employment, engage a good pro tog and get some fantastic pictures to promote YOUR business.

For more info (if you can stand the tedium), take a read of the copyright sections of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 (as amended) which is available online.

Hope this helps.
__________________
Best Regards
Pete
PeteT is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 10:12   #6 (permalink)
Pixalo Crew
 
dabhand16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunstable Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 30,318
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

Pete, that is very interesting. Is employment and copyright law international as TN406 is based in Montana?
dabhand16 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 13:08   #7 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Dave Canon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cheltenham
Posts: 1,290
Dave Canon is just really nice
Dave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really niceDave Canon is just really nice
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

I am not a lawyer either but have some experience with copyright in the UK. Copyright law does vary in different countries so it cannot be assumed that the situation will be the same in the US. In the UK copyright is created automatically and does not require any registration. My understanding is that while this is also true for the US, you have register your copyright before you can sue someone for breach of copyright.

For employee contracts, I have no idea whether the US would differ to the UK but, if you need to retain copyright of Intellectual Property created by your employee, it should be specifically stated in their contract of employment. It certainly was for me when I worked for the UK government, even if I had any new creative ideas relating to my work while sitting at home, they still belonged to the government. Companies employing photographers would normally be quite clear about this in the contract of employment.
__________________
Regards Dave

http://www.image001.co.uk
Dave Canon is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 21:28   #8 (permalink)
Been here a while
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Solihull, West Midlands
Posts: 250
PeteT is a jewel in the rough
PeteT is a jewel in the rough

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabhand16 View Post
Pete, that is very interesting. Is employment and copyright law international as TN406 is based in Montana?
Hadn't spotted that. There will be differences in law between the UK and the US (and indeed between US Federal law and the law of each state), however the basics tend to be the same - as both the UK and the US are signatories to the Universal Copyright Convention.

As far as whether the employment contract bit is concerned, all I can say is that I worked for 25 years for a major US corporation and my contract of employment contained the requisite clause such that my employer owned the copyright in anything which I created at work (and indeed I also automatically assigned all other intellectual property rights to them too). Therefore I suspect the same principle applies.
PeteT is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2013, 22:17   #9 (permalink)
Pixalo Crew
 
dabhand16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunstable Bedfordshire UK
Posts: 30,318
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light
dabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of lightdabhand16 is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

Thanks for that Pete. Relevant and informative.
dabhand16 is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2013, 12:33   #10 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bournemouth, UK
Posts: 684
silver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura aboutsilver has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Copyright issues?

Like Pete says the situation on copyright is not always obvious but in general the rights are with the creator,. if you employ someone to take images then the best option is a written+signed contract that specifies who has rights to what

on the use of images, if there are people in the images and they have not given permission or do not wish for those images to be used online etc they may have recourse to have them taken down
silver is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
copyright, ownership

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Copyright John F General photography questions and answers 12 24-07-2011 10:06
Copyright Issues the_frog General photography questions and answers 3 02-02-2010 14:18
How to Copyright Nancy1340 General photography questions and answers 5 14-07-2008 11:15
Copyright sawdust General Chat 1 18-02-2008 23:11
copyright knobby General photography questions and answers 10 11-07-2007 22:43


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:59.


vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ReviewPost & PhotoPost vB3 Enhanced, Copyright 2003-2014 All Enthusiast, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright 2006 - 2017 Pixalo.com

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197