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Old 19-06-2005, 19:40   #1 (permalink)
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F1 cock up

Michelin has stated that they feel their tyres cannot safely withstand the forces they are subject to on the last corner of the circuit. All teams apart from Ferrari (Bridgestone runners) have said that they cannot race unless there is a chicane built to reduce the entry speed into the last corner and the FIA have ignored the request.

With just over 15 mins to go until the start it looks like all the Michelin runners are not going to participate. This will leave 3 teams only and F1 in shambles.

What does everyone think will happen, should happen and how this will affect the future of F1 in the USA?
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Old 19-06-2005, 19:42   #2 (permalink)
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At the moment, all the cars are going to the grid. We will have to wait and see.
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Old 19-06-2005, 19:43   #3 (permalink)
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So now it looks like just Minardi, Jordon and Ferrari are going to compete (race) and the other teams are going to come in after the outlap. This is going to be disastrous.
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:03   #4 (permalink)
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6 car race only
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:04   #5 (permalink)
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Is this a non-championship race now?
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:05   #6 (permalink)
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Nope..all as normal but with only three teams running
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:10   #7 (permalink)
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[smilie=c:

What a joke. If it's a safety isuue surely they should let them bring in different tyres!
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:19   #8 (permalink)
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The crowd has been booing and they have started to walk out of the circuit. There has now been two incidents of people throwing bottles/cans onto the circuit as well. They are really disgusted and must feel so cheated. What a major cock up this is and how much damage has this done to the sport.

I understand its a safety issue with tyres but everyone knew about this yesterday, a compromise should have been reached so that the race could have gone ahead with penalties for the Michelin runners.
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:23   #9 (permalink)
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Sounds like a case of Grand Prix :wink:
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Old 19-06-2005, 20:28   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milou
Sounds like a case of Grand Prix :wink:
Very good :lol: Thats put the first smile I have had on my face throughout this farse. :P
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Old 19-06-2005, 21:28   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG
[smilie=c:

What a joke. If it's a safety isuue surely they should let them bring in different tyres!
Its in the rules for the tyre manufacturers to bring with them a back-up set of lower-perframnce tyres for reasons such as this. Michelin neglected to do this and should take the blame.
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Old 19-06-2005, 22:35   #12 (permalink)
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michelin took tyres that they thought would be suitable, seems the cutting of the tarmac has left them in trouble. Its a big shame they couldnt get a chicane or other method of slowing them through the last corner, made a farce of it all.
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Old 20-06-2005, 14:36   #13 (permalink)
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If the tyres they did bring were no good then I doubt lower performance tyres would have helped [smilie=c:

It would not have hurt them to put in a chicane before the turn in question!! Not doing so has caused massive damage to the sport in the US. Bet there wont be a US GP next year!! Or many Michelin tyres for that matter.

What would be more of a pity is if it has handed the smug German a chance at the title. That would cause immense damage especially as F1 was just starting to get interesting again.
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Old 20-06-2005, 15:16   #14 (permalink)
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I'm not a big Schumacher fan, but I would rather have a championship fight with him than without him. I think Ferrari are definitely on the up and it will be good for everyone to see Renault, Toyota, McLaren and Ferrari all fighting for the top spot. Would be nice to see BAR and Williams there too, but we can't have everything

What we need now is for a fight right to the end of the season. And for whoever wins it to pip Michael to the post in China. Roll on France in 2 weeks when normality can be resumed. Then bring on Silverstone where Jenson will finally have his day :wink:
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Old 20-06-2005, 16:42   #15 (permalink)
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The biggest disappointment from all this is that the ones that really suffered are the fans. They saved up and travelled there, paid good money and got a farce of a race. The ones that watched it unfold on the tv will probably be thinking twice about paying to go to the next ones, instead they may now stay at home or even not watch at all. this is really damaging to the sport.

The safety of the drivers must come first, but for the sake of the sport and the fans they should have sorted something just to put on the show. The big companies could afford the losses, many of the fans can’t.
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Old 20-06-2005, 17:48   #16 (permalink)
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People are angry at the teams and michelin, but the FIA could have allowed the chicane.....

I think michelin were caught out by the surface, Bridgestone had a race there a couple of weeks back on the surface so they knew what to expect, if they hadnt, i wonder if they would have got caught out the same?
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Old 20-06-2005, 17:59   #17 (permalink)
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I think the blame has to lay fairly and squarely with the FIA. I don't blame Michelin or the teams, it seems they did all they could and the FIA did absolutely nothing to help.

Interesting to see how this pans out over the next couple of weeks.
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Old 20-06-2005, 19:31   #18 (permalink)
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here is a press release from the FIA....

Quote:
2005 UNITED STATES GRAND PRIX
20.06.2005

Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that “tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances” (see correspondence attached).

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commercial entities, can have no role in the enforcement of the rules
Reading that, you can see why they did what they did, but they could have delared it a non championship race and stuck a chicane in, but instead decided to be Pig headed.
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Old 20-06-2005, 19:47   #19 (permalink)
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The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One.
This shows that FIA are a farce.

Bridgestone is an american company that supplies tyres to the indycar series.
All data from Bridgestone US had been sent to Bridgestone F1, so they had tyres manufactured to suit the track.

Michelin Can't test their tyres in the US, or even on a surface the same as Indianapolis.
So how do they make a tyre to last on this new surface.
Its ok saying they could have used the data from previous years, but as the cars are totally different this data is no longer viable.

This is the end of F1 as we know it, the teams will now break away from FIA and create their own formula.
Thay are already testing cars at Dubai, so I can't see it being long before the change is made.
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Old 20-06-2005, 21:17   #20 (permalink)
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Well Michelin has a different story to tell..

Quote:
MICHELIN REAFFIRMS F1 COMMITMENT

Michelin’s top brass have defended their actions at Indianapolis and reaffirmed their commitment to Formula 1.

"I really don't believe this will have an effect on Michelin's future in Formula One," the company’s deputy director of competition Frederic Henry-Biabaud told Reuters.

"We are convinced our decision was a professional and a responsible one in line with our policy of 100 percent safety. We regret the consequences of this but we certainly do not regret our decision. We believe that it (building a chicane) was realistic and feasible but, for their own reasons, the sport's officials ruled it out.”

While admitting that his company “screwed up” by bringing unsuitable tyres, Michelin boss Pierre Dupasquier defended its handling of the subsequent crisis.

“We worked, we brought the right solution, we acted with responsibility and after that I have no regrets,” he told Autosport's website.

Duspasquier said that the problem was not related to the tyres’ wear rate, but was caused specifically by the nature of Turn 13 at Indianapolis and the track’s new surface.

“We did three days' testing on the machines and the tyres conform to our specification, so they are just not suited to this place,” he said. “If we said slowing down on Turn 13 would make it safe, it means we have a reasonably good idea what the cause was. “The new surface is likely to be part of it."

Michelin is likely to be castigated by the FIA.

Technical delegate Charlie Whiting has already suggested that Michelin should have had an alternative tyre on hand before problems arose. If a different tyre had been introduced before qualifying, there would have been no grounds for a penalty.
Whiting insinuated that, by not providing an alternative tyre in advance, Michelin had already breached F1’s rules.

“We are very surprised that this difficulty has arisen,” said Whiting in a letter to Michelin.
“As you know, each team is allowed to bring two different types of tyre to an event so as to ensure that a back-up (usually of lower performance) is available should problems occur.
“It is hard to understand why you have not supplied your teams with such a tyre given your years of experience at Indianapolis.

“That the teams you supply are not in possession of such a tyre will also be a matter for the FIA to consider in due course under Article 151c of the International Sporting Code.”

That article refers to “any act prejudicial to the interests of motor sports generally” – a charge that could certainly be made against Sunday’s hollow grand prix.
Taken from the ITV/F1 website.
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Old 20-06-2005, 21:21   #21 (permalink)
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It looks like something may happen on Wednesday though..the good ole FIA has called a meeting with the teams.
Quote:
The FIA has summoned the seven Michelin teams to a hearing of the World Motor Sport Council next Wednesday (June 29).

The meeting is being held “further to events at the 2005 United States Grand Prix”, according to an FIA statement.

It is anticipated that possible penalties for the teams who boycotted the Indianapolis race will be discussed at the hearing.
Toyota, McLaren, BAR, Renault, Sauber, Williams, and Red Bull Racing all pulled out of the US Grand Prix prior to the start.

Michelin had warned the teams that its tyres would not last the distance unless a chicane was added to slow the cars at Turn 13.

The FIA replied that such an alteration would be impossible, and stalemate followed.

No resolution was achieved, and the race went ahead with only Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi on the grid.

The FIA has already intimated that Michelin could be facing punishment for failing to provide a useable back-up tyre in advance.
The saga continues :roll:
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Old 20-06-2005, 22:03   #22 (permalink)
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And just to show a balanced view here is the official statement from the Michelin Teams

Quote:
Joint press release from the Michelin Teams

2005 United States Grand Prix

The Michelin teams deeply regret the position that they have been put in today and would like to apologise to all the spectators, TV viewers, Formula One fans and sponsors for not being able to take part in today’s USA Grand Prix.

Following Ralf Schumacher’s accident on Friday morning, we were advised by Michelin that none of the tyres that were available to the teams could be used unless the vehicle speed in turn 13 was reduced. Without this Michelin did not consider the tyre to be safe to be used for the race.

All the teams are confident in Michelin and trust their advice as we know they are competent and responsible and their written instruction to us not to race unless changes to the circuit were made was accepted.

After final data from Michelin became available at 06.30 on Sunday morning it became clear that Michelin were not able to guarantee the safety of the drivers. Numerous discussions and meetings took place to find a safe solution to the problem. Every possibility for the race to go ahead in a safe manner was explored. The only practical solution was for a chicane to be installed prior to Turn 13 and nine of the teams were prepared to run under these conditions even forgoing championship points or by allowing non-Michelin teams to take top positions on the grid.

Unfortunately all proposals were rejected by the FIA.

Safety is always the first concern of any team and the FIA. Regrettably the teams were obliged to follow Michelin’s requirements not to race.

We are totally aware that the USA is an important market for Formula One and there is an obligation for Formula One to promote itself in a positive and professional manner. It is sad that we couldn’t showcase Formula One in the manner we would have liked today.

The original press release distributed in the media office at Indianapolis was signed by the Team Principals.
I guess all things considered there are many sides to this but the one thing that shines through is that only the fans had no control over this and they have been the biggest losers.

Its a sad, sad day for F1
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Old 22-06-2005, 19:28   #23 (permalink)
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this is a very interesting account of what happened, apparently by Paul Stoddart of Minardi...

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/050622/13/bq2l.html
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Old 22-06-2005, 20:23   #24 (permalink)
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Interesting read. If it's for real then it really leaves noone in any doubt who was to blame for the race not going ahead.
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Old 22-06-2005, 20:44   #25 (permalink)
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Its a very interesting and complete account of what happened. The problem is as we know there are always two sides to a story however after seeing the event unfold in roughly the same manor as described there I have no reason to doubt Paul Stoddart's account.

We just have to wait to see if Max Mossley responds...
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Old 22-06-2005, 20:48   #26 (permalink)
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Max has his say.
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