F1 cock up

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 18:40

Michelin has stated that they feel their tyres cannot safely withstand the forces they are subject to on the last corner of the circuit. All teams apart from Ferrari (Bridgestone runners) have said that they cannot race unless there is a chicane built to reduce the entry speed into the last corner and the FIA have ignored the request.

With just over 15 mins to go until the start it looks like all the Michelin runners are not going to participate. This will leave 3 teams only and F1 in shambles.

What does everyone think will happen, should happen and how this will affect the future of F1 in the USA?

Joe T · 19-06-2005, 18:42

At the moment, all the cars are going to the grid. We will have to wait and see.

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 18:43

So now it looks like just Minardi, Jordon and Ferrari are going to compete (race) and the other teams are going to come in after the outlap. This is going to be disastrous.

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 19:03

6 car race only

DaveG · 19-06-2005, 19:04

Is this a non-championship race now?

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 19:05

Nope..all as normal but with only three teams running

DaveG · 19-06-2005, 19:10

[smilie=c:

What a joke. If it's a safety isuue surely they should let them bring in different tyres!

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 19:19

The crowd has been booing and they have started to walk out of the circuit. There has now been two incidents of people throwing bottles/cans onto the circuit as well. They are really disgusted and must feel so cheated. What a major cock up this is and how much damage has this done to the sport.

I understand its a safety issue with tyres but everyone knew about this yesterday, a compromise should have been reached so that the race could have gone ahead with penalties for the Michelin runners.

milou · 19-06-2005, 19:23

Sounds like a case of Grand Prix :wink:

***Steve*** · 19-06-2005, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by milou

Sounds like a case of Grand Prix :wink:

Very good :lol: Thats put the first smile I have had on my face throughout this farse. :P

Joe T · 19-06-2005, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveG

[smilie=c:

What a joke. If it's a safety isuue surely they should let them bring in different tyres!

Its in the rules for the tyre manufacturers to bring with them a back-up set of lower-perframnce tyres for reasons such as this. Michelin neglected to do this and should take the blame.

Matty · 19-06-2005, 21:35

michelin took tyres that they thought would be suitable, seems the cutting of the tarmac has left them in trouble. Its a big shame they couldnt get a chicane or other method of slowing them through the last corner, made a farce of it all.

Digital SPG · 20-06-2005, 13:36

If the tyres they did bring were no good then I doubt lower performance tyres would have helped [smilie=c:

It would not have hurt them to put in a chicane before the turn in question!! Not doing so has caused massive damage to the sport in the US. Bet there wont be a US GP next year!! Or many Michelin tyres for that matter.

What would be more of a pity is if it has handed the smug German a chance at the title. That would cause immense damage especially as F1 was just starting to get interesting again.

dlh · 20-06-2005, 14:16

I'm not a big Schumacher fan, but I would rather have a championship fight with him than without him. I think Ferrari are definitely on the up and it will be good for everyone to see Renault, Toyota, McLaren and Ferrari all fighting for the top spot. Would be nice to see BAR and Williams there too, but we can't have everything

What we need now is for a fight right to the end of the season. And for whoever wins it to pip Michael to the post in China. Roll on France in 2 weeks when normality can be resumed. Then bring on Silverstone where Jenson will finally have his day :wink:

***Steve*** · 20-06-2005, 15:42

The biggest disappointment from all this is that the ones that really suffered are the fans. They saved up and travelled there, paid good money and got a farce of a race. The ones that watched it unfold on the tv will probably be thinking twice about paying to go to the next ones, instead they may now stay at home or even not watch at all. this is really damaging to the sport.

The safety of the drivers must come first, but for the sake of the sport and the fans they should have sorted something just to put on the show. The big companies could afford the losses, many of the fans can’t.

Matty · 20-06-2005, 16:48

People are angry at the teams and michelin, but the FIA could have allowed the chicane.....

I think michelin were caught out by the surface, Bridgestone had a race there a couple of weeks back on the surface so they knew what to expect, if they hadnt, i wonder if they would have got caught out the same?

dlh · 20-06-2005, 16:59

I think the blame has to lay fairly and squarely with the FIA. I don't blame Michelin or the teams, it seems they did all they could and the FIA did absolutely nothing to help.

Interesting to see how this pans out over the next couple of weeks.

Matty · 20-06-2005, 18:31

here is a press release from the FIA....

Quote:

2005 UNITED STATES GRAND PRIX
20.06.2005

Formula One is a sporting contest. It must operate to clear rules. These cannot be negotiated each time a competitor brings the wrong equipment to a race.

At Indianapolis we were told by Michelin that their tyres would be unsafe unless their cars were slowed in the main corner. We understood and among other suggestions offered to help them by monitoring speeds and penalising any excess. However, the Michelin teams refused to agree unless the Bridgestone runners were slowed by the same amount. They suggested a chicane.

The Michelin teams seemed unable to understand that this would have been grossly unfair as well as contrary to the rules. The Bridgestone teams had suitable tyres. They did not need to slow down. The Michelin teams’ lack of speed through turn 13 would have been a direct result of inferior equipment, as often happens in Formula One. It must also be remembered that the FIA wrote to all of the teams and both tyre manufacturers on June 1, 2005, to emphasise that “tyres should be built to be reliable under all circumstances” (see correspondence attached).

A chicane would have forced all cars, including those with tyres optimised for high-speed, to run on a circuit whose characteristics had changed fundamentally – from ultra-high speed (because of turn 13) to very slow and twisting. It would also have involved changing the circuit without following any of the modern safety procedures, possibly with implications for the cars and their brakes. It is not difficult to imagine the reaction of an American court had there been an accident (whatever its cause) with the FIA having to admit it had failed to follow its own rules and safety procedures.

The reason for this debacle is clear. Each team is allowed to bring two types of tyre: one an on-the-limit potential race winner, the other a back-up which, although slower, is absolutely reliable. Apparently, none of the Michelin teams brought a back-up to Indianapolis. They subsequently announced they were flying in new tyres from France but then claimed that these too were unsafe.

What about the American fans? What about Formula One fans world-wide? Rather than boycott the race the Michelin teams should have agreed to run at reduced speed in turn 13. The rules would have been kept, they would have earned Championship points and the fans would have had a race. As it is, by refusing to run unless the FIA broke the rules and handicapped the Bridgestone runners, they have damaged themselves and the sport.

It should also be made clear that Formula One Management and Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as commerc

19-06-2005, 18:40	#1 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	F1 cock up Michelin has stated that they feel their tyres cannot safely withstand the forces they are subject to on the last corner of the circuit. All teams apart from Ferrari (Bridgestone runners) have said that they cannot race unless there is a chicane built to reduce the entry speed into the last corner and the FIA have ignored the request. With just over 15 mins to go until the start it looks like all the Michelin runners are not going to participate. This will leave 3 teams only and F1 in shambles. What does everyone think will happen, should happen and how this will affect the future of F1 in the USA? __________________ .......__o .......\<, ....( )/ ( )

20-06-2005, 13:36	#13 (permalink)
Digital SPG Getting Comfy Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 232	If the tyres they did bring were no good then I doubt lower performance tyres would have helped [smilie=c: It would not have hurt them to put in a chicane before the turn in question!! Not doing so has caused massive damage to the sport in the US. Bet there wont be a US GP next year!! Or many Michelin tyres for that matter. What would be more of a pity is if it has handed the smug German a chance at the title. That would cause immense damage especially as F1 was just starting to get interesting again. __________________ __________________ Canon 300D / Rebel 18 - 55 mm Canon Lens 70 -300 mm Sigma lens EF-500 DG Super Sigma Flash 2Gb Sandisk CF card Battery grip Infared remote __________________

20-06-2005, 14:16	#14 (permalink)
dlh Getting Comfy Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lost in Surrey Posts: 132	I'm not a big Schumacher fan, but I would rather have a championship fight with him than without him. I think Ferrari are definitely on the up and it will be good for everyone to see Renault, Toyota, McLaren and Ferrari all fighting for the top spot. Would be nice to see BAR and Williams there too, but we can't have everything What we need now is for a fight right to the end of the season. And for whoever wins it to pip Michael to the post in China. Roll on France in 2 weeks when normality can be resumed. Then bring on Silverstone where Jenson will finally have his day :wink: __________________

19-06-2005, 18:42	#2 (permalink)
Joe T Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Amersham, Bucks Posts: 978	At the moment, all the cars are going to the grid. We will have to wait and see.

19-06-2005, 18:43	#3 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	So now it looks like just Minardi, Jordon and Ferrari are going to compete (race) and the other teams are going to come in after the outlap. This is going to be disastrous.

19-06-2005, 19:03	#4 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	6 car race only

19-06-2005, 19:04	#5 (permalink)
DaveG Been here a while Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 262	Is this a non-championship race now?

19-06-2005, 19:05	#6 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	Nope..all as normal but with only three teams running

19-06-2005, 19:10	#7 (permalink)
DaveG Been here a while Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 262	[smilie=c: What a joke. If it's a safety isuue surely they should let them bring in different tyres!

19-06-2005, 19:19	#8 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	The crowd has been booing and they have started to walk out of the circuit. There has now been two incidents of people throwing bottles/cans onto the circuit as well. They are really disgusted and must feel so cheated. What a major cock up this is and how much damage has this done to the sport. I understand its a safety issue with tyres but everyone knew about this yesterday, a compromise should have been reached so that the race could have gone ahead with penalties for the Michelin runners.

19-06-2005, 19:23	#9 (permalink)
milou Forum Regular Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Southampton Posts: 583	Sounds like a case of Grand Prix :wink:

19-06-2005, 21:35	#12 (permalink)
Matty Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kings hill Posts: 5,269	michelin took tyres that they thought would be suitable, seems the cutting of the tarmac has left them in trouble. Its a big shame they couldnt get a chicane or other method of slowing them through the last corner, made a farce of it all.

20-06-2005, 15:42	#15 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 16,150	The biggest disappointment from all this is that the ones that really suffered are the fans. They saved up and travelled there, paid good money and got a farce of a race. The ones that watched it unfold on the tv will probably be thinking twice about paying to go to the next ones, instead they may now stay at home or even not watch at all. this is really damaging to the sport. The safety of the drivers must come first, but for the sake of the sport and the fans they should have sorted something just to put on the show. The big companies could afford the losses, many of the fans can’t.

20-06-2005, 16:48	#16 (permalink)
Matty Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: kings hill Posts: 5,269	People are angry at the teams and michelin, but the FIA could have allowed the chicane..... I think michelin were caught out by the surface, Bridgestone had a race there a couple of weeks back on the surface so they knew what to expect, if they hadnt, i wonder if they would have got caught out the same?

20-06-2005, 16:59	#17 (permalink)
dlh Getting Comfy Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lost in Surrey Posts: 132	I think the blame has to lay fairly and squarely with the FIA. I don't blame Michelin or the teams, it seems they did all they could and the FIA did absolutely nothing to help. Interesting to see how this pans out over the next couple of weeks.