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Old 21-12-2005, 13:00   #1 (permalink)
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guitar tab sites being closed

after recent threads i know there are a fair few guitarists on here and thought you may be interested...

personally i think this is all getting a bit ott and silly now.

BBC linky credit to norky at hexus for this link.
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Old 21-12-2005, 13:24   #2 (permalink)
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That's ridiculous! I usually just download the chord progessions of anything I want to play, and it's mostly just some guy's idea of how it goes which he's uploaded anyway.

Completely avaricious on the part of the industry and it's not as though they're not making a fortune anyway.
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Old 21-12-2005, 13:46   #3 (permalink)
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You usually just take what Joe X has done and then paraphrase it into how you hear it.

Bizarre.
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Old 21-12-2005, 13:49   #4 (permalink)
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I can understand artists wanting to protect their intellectual property.

On the other hand, I can play almost anything just by listening to it, so, although tab helps a little, banning unofficial tab sites is not going to slow me down much, if at all.

So yes, its silly.

I'm sure it won't be long before artists start releasing empty CDs cos their lawyers advised them to not let the public hear their songs (this would be a good thing in some cases).
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Old 21-12-2005, 13:50   #5 (permalink)
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or cd's with copy protection that wont allow them to be played on normal cd players, oh !!! hang on ! they already did that didnt they
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Old 21-12-2005, 14:03   #6 (permalink)
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silly very silly, i got books full of tab!
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Old 12-12-2006, 20:27   #7 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

i find the action of closing these sites down very strange and frustrating! It's making music a closed community that only a few can access. i for one can't read music. i know there are thousands of other people out there that can't. This also deters people from wanting to pick up an instilment and start learning, if first the have to learn how to read sheet music and then play nursery rhymes.

As such the music industry will lose loads of money. (good i say, they have become so greedy its sickening!) the result will be less people will be buying / learning instalments. so that section of the music industry will suffer and see reduced sales in actual instalments. This means there are fewer musicians out there, and so less people buying actual sheet music.

If you make it easy for people to become apart of the community then they are more likely to keep at it and learn things like how to read sheet music. Music is a very expensive hobby to get into in the first place (i play bass guitar) but if i would have had to learn how to read music first there would have been no way that i would have started playing.

This brings me on to my next point. By shutting down these tab sites they are destroying years worth of community work. (i know its not actual gone, but we can't access it). A massive collective database of tabs which give people some idea of how their favourite song is played.

If people can just quickly and easily search for the tab for their favourite song (and not have to buy a book (good luck trying to find a book with your favourite song it, if you do manage to find it by some miracle how much will it cost you! n will it be in tab form? i doubt it very much!). then it makes it far more easy to access the music world and they will be far more inclined to try and learn a instalment.

A point that i touch on in that last paragraph. Being forced to buy a book means that you will end up with a load of songs that you donít want to learn. Also it is extremely hard to find sheet music for some of the older less well known bands or some of the new hot bands that come out. books take time to publish and by the time they become available then the song could have become a annoying tune that no one cares to remember.

Moving on to the BBC news article. How dare they even suggest that the owners of these sites be put in jail! how dare they! These greedy thugs are suing anything in site, as usual just to expand the size of the wallets. n donít give me that rubbish about...O the artist suffer.. rubbish the artists get a very small percentage of the profits anyway, the real people who stand to make the money (in the short run mind you as i'v pointed out) are these corporate monsters. if they really cared about the artists then they would give them a fair percentage of the profits that their cd's made. Not 3 or 4 % of it.

They are killing off the music industry!

Sorry to go on a bit but it really annoys me.
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Old 13-12-2006, 02:59   #8 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

My son plays the drums and his friend guitar, and they're always getting tabs frome this website.
Post A Note : No Ads, No Gimmicks ... Just Tabs

and it is stupid of the record companies and the authors to try to prevent sites like those, so that means from now on teachers will have to write their own song so they cant teach music in schools beacouse authors and companies dont want thier tabs used?!!.....
If someone was trying to learn a song you would think they would go and buy the cd, so that means their making money via the tabs...so it doesnt make sense........
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Old 13-12-2006, 15:54   #9 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

As someone who's tone deaf and can barely string two notes together I'm a bit out of this but I sympathise with other posters' frustrations. Still, that's what you get when the lawyers and the money men get together.

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Old 13-12-2006, 18:44   #10 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

Quote:
Originally Posted by j sotelo View Post
My son plays the drums and his friend guitar, and they're always getting tabs frome this website.
Post A Note : No Ads, No Gimmicks ... Just Tabs

and it is stupid of the record companies and the authors to try to prevent sites like those, so that means from now on teachers will have to write their own song so they cant teach music in schools beacouse authors and companies dont want thier tabs used?!!.....
If someone was trying to learn a song you would think they would go and buy the cd, so that means their making money via the tabs...so it doesnt make sense........
Thanks man, i'v been desperatly trying to find a tab site that hasn't been bullied into shutting down. im guna make sure i can get as many tabs as possiible before it is.
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Old 13-12-2006, 19:13   #11 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

The difficulty here is that there is no fixed definition of what the internet actually is and this means a lawsuit would be doomed before it started with any hald decent lawyer.

The thing is, I am not allowed to photocopy a set of lyrics with the guitar chords tabulated but I am perfectly entitled to phone a friend and say 'Hi Pete, let me tell you the chords for ....'

He can write those chords down and has done nothing wrong as this is merely the passing of information by a transmission source, ie the telephone.

Ok, so now you have to say can i do the same thing by email? Answer yes. Email is a recognised transmission system for the passing of information. However, if I wanted to publish the same thing on the internet, we run into the lack of a legal definition of the internet per se. Is it a transmission system for communicating information? Well, almost certainly yes. However, it is not a personal or private system in that anyone can see what you put up if they know your URL.

So, if a site simply says 'We know the tabs for 'House of the rising sun' (for example!), drop us an email and we'll send them to you, that is now a private transmission of information.

Is that copied? No, because a decent musician can listen to something and work out the chords etc without ever seeing a transcript of the music therefore he is utilising something that has been put in the public domain by the copyright holder.... he/she allowed it to be played over the radio!

So as long as the person sending this info in an email puts a rider on it saying 'These are the chords that I recognised and I don't take responsibility for their accuracy' then the music companies/copyright holders are like Long John Silver after losing his second leg to a shot from a pistol.... they wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

This is a highly complex legal area but no court has yet successfully defined this area so it would have to be a music company with extremely deep pockets prepared to go and try and force a test case which will cost them millions and is highly unlikely to give them any gains at the end of the day.

So better idea Mr MPA chairman.... let's just stick you in jail and then we won't have to argue any more <g> My prediction: You will still see thousands of tab sites out there because most are far too small for the companies to bother with, they can't sue because these site owners are not selling: they haven't got any money!

Cheers,
Rob
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Old 13-12-2006, 21:06   #12 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Barron View Post
The difficulty here is that there is no fixed definition of what the internet actually is and this means a lawsuit would be doomed before it started with any hald decent lawyer.

The thing is, I am not allowed to photocopy a set of lyrics with the guitar chords tabulated but I am perfectly entitled to phone a friend and say 'Hi Pete, let me tell you the chords for ....'

He can write those chords down and has done nothing wrong as this is merely the passing of information by a transmission source, ie the telephone.

Ok, so now you have to say can i do the same thing by email? Answer yes. Email is a recognised transmission system for the passing of information. However, if I wanted to publish the same thing on the internet, we run into the lack of a legal definition of the internet per se. Is it a transmission system for communicating information? Well, almost certainly yes. However, it is not a personal or private system in that anyone can see what you put up if they know your URL.

So, if a site simply says 'We know the tabs for 'House of the rising sun' (for example!), drop us an email and we'll send them to you, that is now a private transmission of information.

Is that copied? No, because a decent musician can listen to something and work out the chords etc without ever seeing a transcript of the music therefore he is utilising something that has been put in the public domain by the copyright holder.... he/she allowed it to be played over the radio!

So as long as the person sending this info in an email puts a rider on it saying 'These are the chords that I recognised and I don't take responsibility for their accuracy' then the music companies/copyright holders are like Long John Silver after losing his second leg to a shot from a pistol.... they wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

This is a highly complex legal area but no court has yet successfully defined this area so it would have to be a music company with extremely deep pockets prepared to go and try and force a test case which will cost them millions and is highly unlikely to give them any gains at the end of the day.

So better idea Mr MPA chairman.... let's just stick you in jail and then we won't have to argue any more <g> My prediction: You will still see thousands of tab sites out there because most are far too small for the companies to bother with, they can't sue because these site owners are not selling: they haven't got any money!

Cheers,
Rob
That was very well explained! espicaily the bit about the 'These are the chords that I recognised and I don't take responsibility for their accuracy' at the begging of every tab i have see it always says, "this is the authors own interpretation of the song and is in no way associated with the artists themselves"

For example: the mx tabs disclaimer

#----------------------------------PLEASE NOTE---------------------------------#
#This file is the author's own work and represents their interpretation of the #
#song. You may only use this file for private study, scholarship, or research. #
#------------------------------------------------------------------------------#

So as you say, I wouldn't of thought that they would have a leg to stand on either. I hope your right about them wasting millions, would serve them right.

Once again that was brilliantly explained, and has also help my understanding of the legal side of the argument.

Thanks
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Old 13-12-2006, 22:33   #13 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

heres another link with that same info...
Guitar tab and lyrics sites to close, music publishers association, tablature and chords, song lyrics

http://www.guitarsite.com/new98jul.htm#OLGAgone!

bandtabs.com

Music Publishers' Association | News

as you can see many many websites are allready closed without a battle , they have closed on their on will. it didnt take millions , but they should at least fought a little....MPA is winning without a fight..thats too bad...

But if you really want to help go here and join im sure that will really help!!!!!!! MuSATO: Music Student And Teacher Organization
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Old 19-02-2007, 13:56   #14 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

Well ULTIMATE GUITAR TABS ARCHIVE | 200,000+ Guitar Tabs, Bass Tabs, Chords and Guitar Pro Tabs! is what I use, and I remember the furory about this when it was going to happen (there is a forum on it as well, so there were tonnes of discussions like this on it). Luckily it's still in operation.
I think here we find the difference between musicians who are in it for profit, and those who want to express their feelings through their music.
Just as a side note does anyone go on the ultimate guitar forum?
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Old 19-02-2007, 14:42   #15 (permalink)
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Re: guitar tab sites being closed

Well it will pee my son off, he's learning the guitar at the moment & he is always printing off new stuff to learn.
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