help with lighting etc

anna_marie09 · 27-08-2006, 11:04

i'm going to be taking some photos of people and was wondering about lighting etc.I've never used it before and dont really know anything about it.I'm going to be taking photos in my house so its a little dark and not sure how to get rid of shadows etc
the lay out will be a white background,then person,then me infront taking pictures where would i put lights? any help will be great

Thanks

nicklovick · 27-08-2006, 11:46

Remember to stand your subject away from the white background, otherwise you will get strong shadows on the background.

Useful tips for potographing people...
Get them to stretch their face b4 shooting. Get them to open their mouth and eyes as wide as possible, then screw them up a couple of times then relax. If you do this with them to show what to do, it also is a good icebreaker.
This prosess relaxes the mussles in the face.

Also get them to lick their lips as this will add a hint of shine to the lips (this works for both men and women).

Lastly, you should have your lighting sorted b4 your subjects arrive, tedybears make good subjects when setting up lights and composition as they don't get board or answer back.

Although you have set up your lighting etc b4 hand. It's always a good idea to get your subjects to hold a light meeter as you flash your lights a couple of times and make those last minute changes.
This gets them used to the equpment and setup relaxing them thuther.

Hope this is useful!!!
Have fun.

**Dabhand16** · 27-08-2006, 17:20

Anna Marie, you have not said what sort of lighting you are using. That is, is it flash, tungsten, one light or two, or three?

A basic portrait three light setup would be, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've got this wrong,

Main light high and to the side, between you and the sitter, fill light lower and on the other side, between the sitter (90 degrees) and the main light, also with a lower power. These are 'flood' lights. Then you have a catchlight with a tighter beam high and at the rear, (tempted to say back side...) same side as the main light. This light plays on the back of the head. If you have the space, this light should be BEHIND and to the side of the sitter, not just to the side. You can see the shadow detail before you start, so can make any adjustments. Studio flashes used to have a mains light built-in so you could do this. You can alter the power by the distance from the sitter, or by using lower rated bulbs, or dimmers if its tungsten.

If you have access to a fouth light, this can light the backdrop, usually set med to low height.

You can use a reflector to reduce shadows instead of a side light, usually white, but gold can give warmer tones, or even a slave fill-in flash with a diffuser (hankerchief) over the head.

The idea here is to create shadows, then control them. The old problem with using flash was you never really knew what the effect would be until the processing was done, unless you had a polaroid film back, but now with the LCD preview, this is not so much of a problem.

I've not tried this, but you could Google portrait lighting and see if there are any diagrams around. It is a lot easier to grasp if you can see the set up.

As Nick said, try to keep the backdrop well behind the sitter, or consider lighting the backdrop.

nicklovick · 27-08-2006, 18:07

Erm... while Dabhand16's adivese is good, I think its far to complex. Using one light or more than two lights can be difficult to use if you aren't familiar with studio lighting. Heavy shadows can become a real problem.

I would use a standard 2 light set up. Its much simpler and is much more forgiving. You can move your subject around without having to adjust your lights (ideal for kids and animals).

Make sure one light is half or a quater the power of you other light.
Once you are happy with using a set-up like this you can then add more lights to enhance your shots.

Just remember, there is only one sun

**Dabhand16** · 27-08-2006, 18:31

I would not disagree with Nick, but if you do the two light set up, nake sure you follow his advice re different power levels. If you don't, the lighting will be as flat as if you'd used a flash on the camera.

I have now googled 'Portrait lighting', and got loads of sites, so you might want to do this too.

here is one
and another
and another
and yet another
and this one is BASIC

I'd like to be a fly on the wall, you are going to have fun!

***Dave*** · 27-08-2006, 19:05

Alternatively if you don't have access to such a lighting outfit, it's always a good excuse to spend £60 on the 50mm f/1.8 & use natural light from the windows

Take a look at some example shots Steve took with that exact lens :- Baby Maya – 2 weeks old

anna_marie09 · 27-08-2006, 19:46

hi thanks for every one getting back to me.
it sounds so confusing and so many different ways of doing stuff but i think the diagram that Nick done is easy and simple.I don't really have any lights just yet but im away to get some soon.Im using this light which is on a clamp,so i will try and get another one and do Nicks idea and see how it goes.As for baby maya, oh my god what brilliant pics that baby is a little cutie.lol
Thanks

Anna

Hacker · 30-08-2006, 08:00

Fascinating thread and one I will watch with interest. I'm going to try some portrait lighting later this week using two flash guns, the main one fitted with the gary Fong Lightsphere and the fill flash with a Stofen Omnibounce, I've no idea what I'm doing or what the outcome will be but it should be fun. The other advantage (I think) is that by using two (Nikon) flashes I get iTTL which will hopefully help.

***Steve*** · 31-08-2006, 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hacker

Fascinating thread and one I will watch with interest. I'm going to try some portrait lighting later this week using two flash guns, the main one fitted with the gary Fong Lightsphere and the fill flash with a Stofen Omnibounce, I've no idea what I'm doing or what the outcome will be but it should be fun. The other advantage (I think) is that by using two (Nikon) flashes I get iTTL which will hopefully help.

Thats the beauty of this hobby though, there are many different ways to achieve the results we want and there is so much to learn along the way. Thats what keeps me interested and makes it fun.

**Angela** · 31-08-2006, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve

Thats the beauty of this hobby though, there are many different ways to achieve the results we want and there is so much to learn along the way. Thats what keeps me interested and makes it fun.

...and makes it all a bit overwhelming sometimes!

***Steve*** · 31-08-2006, 13:15

The clouds will lift and it will be blue sky all the way

If you are stuck Angela just shout, we are all here to help and will do our best to keep the advice to a level that is suitable for you.

Before you know it you'll be telling us how to do stuff

**Angela** · 31-08-2006, 14:02

Thanks Steve

I just have to keep telling myself that you don't learn how to take good pictures overnight...it takes a bit more practice!

Hacker · 31-08-2006, 15:53

I got myself a backdrop support with a couple of cotton backdrops along with two light stands and another flash which I needed anyway, it was either the Nikon SB800 or a couple of studio flashes and at this point in time the Nikon would get more use.

First observation, it's not easy!

With the limited equipment I set up the flash guns at about 45* using the SB800 in wireless mode to fire the SB600, I had one flash fitted with the Gary Fong Lightsphere and the other with a Stofen Omnibounce. With the white background I was aiming to achieve a high key effect but unfortunately I didn't manage it, all the creases and folds were visible and it took considerable manipulation in Photoshop to get close to the effect I was after and unfortunately this is visible in the photos.

I then tried the black background, again with two guns, both of them quite close to the subjects and again with the Lightsphere and Stofen. This time the shots were under exposing quite considerably even though the EV was well up on both guns. Like before this required quite a bit of work in PS which has unfortunately introduced some noise.

I've now ordered a couple of studio flashes with a softbox and umbrella and they should be here tomorrow. If anyone else is considering this I would say consider the rolls of backdrop paper available in various colours as the cotton/muslin backdrops are a right pain to fold up after use, I didn't realise the paper rolls were available.

Live and learn.

***Steve*** · 31-08-2006, 17:05

Interesting results and I must say that forgiving the PS work the poses of the dog are very good!!

You highkey PS work while competant is showing some areas of white (NOT around the subject) that you have failed to fill in completely.

With a subject and photo like this I would have done a rough mask around it and then inverted the selection and just used fill with white selected as the colour . From there duplicate the layer and then used a large radius brush and high opacity to fill in around the dog. Once happy with the blend the final touch if needed would bethe eraser set as a small radius to remove some of the fill and allow the hair detail to show through. Obviosuly this is just one methord of achieving a result but it may help for next time

27-08-2006, 11:04	#1 (permalink)
anna_marie09 New here Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: dundee Posts: 26	help with lighting etc i'm going to be taking some photos of people and was wondering about lighting etc.I've never used it before and dont really know anything about it.I'm going to be taking photos in my house so its a little dark and not sure how to get rid of shadows etc the lay out will be a white background,then person,then me infront taking pictures where would i put lights? any help will be great Thanks

27-08-2006, 11:46	#2 (permalink)
nicklovick Been here a while Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Orkney Islands, Scotland Posts: 292	Re: help with lighting etc Remember to stand your subject away from the white background, otherwise you will get strong shadows on the background. Useful tips for potographing people... Get them to stretch their face b4 shooting. Get them to open their mouth and eyes as wide as possible, then screw them up a couple of times then relax. If you do this with them to show what to do, it also is a good icebreaker. This prosess relaxes the mussles in the face. Also get them to lick their lips as this will add a hint of shine to the lips (this works for both men and women). Lastly, you should have your lighting sorted b4 your subjects arrive, tedybears make good subjects when setting up lights and composition as they don't get board or answer back. Although you have set up your lighting etc b4 hand. It's always a good idea to get your subjects to hold a light meeter as you flash your lights a couple of times and make those last minute changes. This gets them used to the equpment and setup relaxing them thuther. Hope this is useful!!! Have fun.

27-08-2006, 17:20	#3 (permalink)
Dabhand16 Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dunstable Bedfordshire UK Posts: 8,722	Re: help with lighting etc Anna Marie, you have not said what sort of lighting you are using. That is, is it flash, tungsten, one light or two, or three? A basic portrait three light setup would be, and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I've got this wrong, Main light high and to the side, between you and the sitter, fill light lower and on the other side, between the sitter (90 degrees) and the main light, also with a lower power. These are 'flood' lights. Then you have a catchlight with a tighter beam high and at the rear, (tempted to say back side...) same side as the main light. This light plays on the back of the head. If you have the space, this light should be BEHIND and to the side of the sitter, not just to the side. You can see the shadow detail before you start, so can make any adjustments. Studio flashes used to have a mains light built-in so you could do this. You can alter the power by the distance from the sitter, or by using lower rated bulbs, or dimmers if its tungsten. If you have access to a fouth light, this can light the backdrop, usually set med to low height. You can use a reflector to reduce shadows instead of a side light, usually white, but gold can give warmer tones, or even a slave fill-in flash with a diffuser (hankerchief) over the head. The idea here is to create shadows, then control them. The old problem with using flash was you never really knew what the effect would be until the processing was done, unless you had a polaroid film back, but now with the LCD preview, this is not so much of a problem. I've not tried this, but you could Google portrait lighting and see if there are any diagrams around. It is a lot easier to grasp if you can see the set up. As Nick said, try to keep the backdrop well behind the sitter, or consider lighting the backdrop. __________________ Graham

27-08-2006, 18:07	#4 (permalink)
nicklovick Been here a while Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Orkney Islands, Scotland Posts: 292	Re: help with lighting etc Erm... while Dabhand16's adivese is good, I think its far to complex. Using one light or more than two lights can be difficult to use if you aren't familiar with studio lighting. Heavy shadows can become a real problem. I would use a standard 2 light set up. Its much simpler and is much more forgiving. You can move your subject around without having to adjust your lights (ideal for kids and animals). Make sure one light is half or a quater the power of you other light. Once you are happy with using a set-up like this you can then add more lights to enhance your shots. Just remember, there is only one sun

27-08-2006, 18:31	#5 (permalink)
Dabhand16 Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Dunstable Bedfordshire UK Posts: 8,722	Re: help with lighting etc I would not disagree with Nick, but if you do the two light set up, nake sure you follow his advice re different power levels. If you don't, the lighting will be as flat as if you'd used a flash on the camera. I have now googled 'Portrait lighting', and got loads of sites, so you might want to do this too. here is one and another and another and yet another and this one is BASIC I'd like to be a fly on the wall, you are going to have fun!

27-08-2006, 19:05	#6 (permalink)
*Dave* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 14,659	Re: help with lighting etc Alternatively if you don't have access to such a lighting outfit, it's always a good excuse to spend £60 on the 50mm f/1.8 & use natural light from the windows Take a look at some example shots Steve took with that exact lens :- Baby Maya – 2 weeks old

27-08-2006, 19:46	#7 (permalink)
anna_marie09 New here Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: dundee Posts: 26	Re: help with lighting etc hi thanks for every one getting back to me. it sounds so confusing and so many different ways of doing stuff but i think the diagram that Nick done is easy and simple.I don't really have any lights just yet but im away to get some soon.Im using this light which is on a clamp,so i will try and get another one and do Nicks idea and see how it goes.As for baby maya, oh my god what brilliant pics that baby is a little cutie.lol Thanks Anna

30-08-2006, 08:00	#8 (permalink)
Hacker Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 623	Re: help with lighting etc Fascinating thread and one I will watch with interest. I'm going to try some portrait lighting later this week using two flash guns, the main one fitted with the gary Fong Lightsphere and the fill flash with a Stofen Omnibounce, I've no idea what I'm doing or what the outcome will be but it should be fun. The other advantage (I think) is that by using two (Nikon) flashes I get iTTL which will hopefully help.

31-08-2006, 13:15	#11 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 15,969	Re: help with lighting etc The clouds will lift and it will be blue sky all the way If you are stuck Angela just shout, we are all here to help and will do our best to keep the advice to a level that is suitable for you. Before you know it you'll be telling us how to do stuff

31-08-2006, 14:02	#12 (permalink)
Angela Pixalo Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Wimbledon Posts: 5,750	Re: help with lighting etc Thanks Steve I just have to keep telling myself that you don't learn how to take good pictures overnight...it takes a bit more practice!

31-08-2006, 15:53	#13 (permalink)
Hacker Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 623	Re: help with lighting etc I got myself a backdrop support with a couple of cotton backdrops along with two light stands and another flash which I needed anyway, it was either the Nikon SB800 or a couple of studio flashes and at this point in time the Nikon would get more use. First observation, it's not easy! With the limited equipment I set up the flash guns at about 45* using the SB800 in wireless mode to fire the SB600, I had one flash fitted with the Gary Fong Lightsphere and the other with a Stofen Omnibounce. With the white background I was aiming to achieve a high key effect but unfortunately I didn't manage it, all the creases and folds were visible and it took considerable manipulation in Photoshop to get close to the effect I was after and unfortunately this is visible in the photos. I then tried the black background, again with two guns, both of them quite close to the subjects and again with the Lightsphere and Stofen. This time the shots were under exposing quite considerably even though the EV was well up on both guns. Like before this required quite a bit of work in PS which has unfortunately introduced some noise. I've now ordered a couple of studio flashes with a softbox and umbrella and they should be here tomorrow. If anyone else is considering this I would say consider the rolls of backdrop paper available in various colours as the cotton/muslin backdrops are a right pain to fold up after use, I didn't realise the paper rolls were available. Live and learn. __________________ www.greenlees-photography.com - wedding & portrait photography www.greenlees-equine.com - sport horse photography

31-08-2006, 17:05	#14 (permalink)
*Steve* Pixalo Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: An Englishman living in Germany Posts: 15,969	Re: help with lighting etc Interesting results and I must say that forgiving the PS work the poses of the dog are very good!! You highkey PS work while competant is showing some areas of white (NOT around the subject) that you have failed to fill in completely. With a subject and photo like this I would have done a rough mask around it and then inverted the selection and just used fill with white selected as the colour . From there duplicate the layer and then used a large radius brush and high opacity to fill in around the dog. Once happy with the blend the final touch if needed would bethe eraser set as a small radius to remove some of the fill and allow the hair detail to show through. Obviosuly this is just one methord of achieving a result but it may help for next time