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Old 09-09-2008, 22:30   #1 (permalink)
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Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Help! I am having trouble with a technique that was working well with the 20D but I just can't seem to crack it on the 40D.

For jumping horses (for example) I would often use AF One Shot / Single frame and prefocus. I'd pre-focus with autofocus on either the top bar of the jump (if side on) or on a point at ground level in front of the jump (if head on). I'd lock focus by half pressing the shutter and then recompose the shot by 'lifting up' to where the horse would come onto shot as it jumped.

Hopefully that explanation makes sense? I did toy with trying to draw a diagram but thought I'd give it a whirl without to start with!

I would imagine the same sort of technique would be used for moving subjects that come into view from around a blind corner, ie. moving subjects where tracking in AF Servo is not possible for whatever reason? I'd guess you'd pre-focus on the ground at a point/distance the subject will cross, lock focus and then recompose by 'lifting up' to where the subject is expected to pass through the spot.

This 'technique' seemed to work well with the 20D but I just can't nail it with the 40D. Am I completely missing the point and going about it all wrong?

As I don't have an exhaustive supply of horses jumping I've resorted to soft toys being flung (by my long-suffering OH) over a makeshift jump in the garden in an attempt to mimic the movement - you can imagine what the neighbours think! I've also tried prefocusing on a spot on the grass and getting a helper (OH again!) to move something into the same spot. I've tried using just autofocus but have also tried focussing with auto and then flicking to manual. It's just not happening...

All seems to be well with stationary stuff and when tracking a subject, it's this pre-focus malarky that is eluding me.

Help!
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Old 09-09-2008, 22:36   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

If you are in a fixed position and shooting to an equally fixed place, use manual focus. Saves having to worry about keeping a half pressure on the shutter release.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:27   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

I usually use a similar technique for action shots such as horses. I pre-focus but manually then you can forget focus and concentrate on framing the shot. This obviously only works if the subject is certain to be always the same distance from the camera. The alternative would be to use auto-focus and let the camera decide but I find this too difficult for most circumstances and I cannot get reliable results.
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Old 10-09-2008, 10:38   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

All been said above: manual focus! I prefer to track and focus, something only really easy enough with either primes or the 'pump action' 100-400 (just one of the reasons I like it so much! )
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:07   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Thanks all

I have tried pre-focussing (albeit with auto) onto the chosen 'spot', then flicking to manual before recomposing which I would have thought would be fairly similar to pre-focus with manual and then recomposing?

I will try again using manual focus for pre-focussing and see what happens. I just can't figure out why I can't 'get it' with the 40D when I was getting good results with the other camera using the technique originally described. Maybe it's just practise, practise and a bit of a tweak of technique for the new beastie?

I guess my theory regards 'pre-focus' is right though? Or should I be doing something else?

Any other suggestions for suitable tests would be welcome too
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:16   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Unless you have a very clear marker to pre focus against, trying to Auto focus on grass for example could leave your focus point out by a few feet easily. The only way to be definite is to manually focus & if you have the chance to use a tripod, you could use the excellent "Live View" & zoom in to 5x or 10x & manually focus to extreme precision
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:18   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Originally Posted by Ali View Post
For jumping horses (for example) I would often use AF One Shot / Single frame and prefocus. I'd pre-focus with autofocus on either the top bar of the jump (if side on) or on a point at ground level in front of the jump (if head on). I'd lock focus by half pressing the shutter and then recompose the shot by 'lifting up' to where the horse would come onto shot as it jumped.
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I guess my theory regards 'pre-focus' is right though? Or should I be doing something else?
Assuming that you've chosen the ideal point for focus and that camera is in One Shot mode (just checking, not casting doubt on your ability!) then this should work, so I'd have to say that it's technique practise that's needed. Where does focus tend to end up?
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Old 10-09-2008, 11:31   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Originally Posted by Markulous View Post
Assuming that you've chosen the ideal point for focus and that camera is in One Shot mode (just checking, not casting doubt on your ability!) then this should work, so I'd have to say that it's technique practise that's needed. Where does focus tend to end up?
Personally I'd go with casting a doubt on my ability
Definitely in One Shot, so more than likely not hit the right spot for focussing...

As for where the focus ends up - that's a bit random. It's either 'on the bar' or missed completely, not yet got sharp focus on the actual subject with this method
The static stuff and tracked subjects are coming along well it's just this pre-focus thingy that is proving hard to nail.

If I have the theory right then it sounds like technique tweaking needs to be applied and plenty of practise. I'll keep lobbing the stuffed toys and try with manual focus all the way
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Old 10-09-2008, 12:42   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Personally I'd go with casting a doubt on my ability
LOL! Well, if you're not reacting against too much, how's about camera shake (tho' think you like high shutters - usually my area of failing with low shutter speeds)?
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Old 10-09-2008, 15:14   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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LOL! Well, if you're not reacting against too much, how's about camera shake (tho' think you like high shutters - usually my area of failing with low shutter speeds)?
Reacting, no chance - I need all the help I can get!!

Yup, camera shake is another possibility but as you've noticed I tend to go for higher speeds where possible. I think with the recent Firle stuff the lowest would have been around 1/640th for the showjumping which should have been (I think?! ) plenty fast enough. Same speeds used for tracked shots which were coming up reasonably sharp (better as I got more practise).
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Old 10-09-2008, 15:23   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Well, I guess 'snatching' at the shutter release might induce shake (rather than a smooth press), especially if you're @ the top end of the lens - something of which I still have a tendency to do!

In some ways, tracking is actually easier as you're not trying to hold the camera still but just smoothly panning and the squeeze of the release is just the briefest of moments in the tracking. Concentrating on holding the camera still can lead to tensing up and the press of the shutter can release that tension, allowing camera movement. This happens with me as I've a very mild genetic condition and the harder I try to keep steady the worse it gets!
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Old 10-09-2008, 18:07   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Back button focus is your friend for this sort of shooting, no need to hold the shutter button half way down, i use back button for everything i shoot, i sometimes use manual focus on the 300F2.8 you can manual focus without turning it to manual but i can still hit the back button if i want to track
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Old 10-09-2008, 18:30   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

I have just found this shot as an example not great, this is the position people like to see the hoofs, draw a line from the top of the jump and the line goes behind the riders head if your shouting head on (focused on top of jump) it will look soft unless your using a small aperture but then you can't blow the back ground
(this was 10D on AI servo)
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Old 10-09-2008, 18:51   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Originally Posted by Ali View Post

As I don't have an exhaustive supply of horses jumping I've resorted to soft toys being flung (by my long-suffering OH) over a makeshift jump in the garden in an attempt to mimic the movement - you can imagine what the neighbours think!


though you've never catch me trying this with 'our' Kosen & Steiff gang

Anyway back on topic. I've never tried prefocussing and always rely on servo focus (gawd knows how I'd have gotten on doing sports with my old manual focus Canon T90). I can't quite determine if you are rattling off a few shots per scene or just going for one shot?

I'm sure my fail rate would be 100% with one pic on one shot-single frame.
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Old 10-09-2008, 21:13   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Thanks all

With darkness falling earlier than it was, I shall be putting all this into practise at the weekend. As well as the "Stuffie Jumping" in the garden, I should get the chance to practise with dog agility (if I can keep up) on Saturday hopefully.

LOL @ Mike - I rather think "Oink" would enjoy a turn around our makeshift jumping course! And as for Molly - she looks made for agility!

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I can't quite determine if you are rattling off a few shots per scene or just going for one shot?
In this instance I was going for the one shot.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:28   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Originally Posted by Ali View Post
Thanks all

LOL @ Mike - I rather think "Oink" would enjoy a turn around our makeshift jumping course! And as for Molly - she looks made for agility!

In this instance I was going for the one shot.


I'm impressed you're trying for just the one shot. I'd have rattled off at least three in the hope of catching one decent image. Is it just a timing thing?
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:41   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

If someone's paying me to be there so I have to get a shot, I might use multishot, as quality doesn't then tend to be the priority. Slightly riskier (as it's all or nothing) but I've found I've got infinitely better shots with timing on a single shot - it also concentrates the mind as, a bit like employing manual focus, I'm much more attentive. Machine gunning makes me lazy and I rather 'switch off' and go into auto mode
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:15   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Originally Posted by Dabhand16 View Post
If you are in a fixed position and shooting to an equally fixed place, use manual focus. Saves having to worry about keeping a half pressure on the shutter release.
Good suggestion Dabhand.Also if you have to wait while the action appears with your finger half way down on the shutter release to hold the focus, if the light changes significantly in between you will not get a correctly exposed shot.
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Old 11-09-2008, 12:36   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

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Also if you have to wait while the action appears with your finger half way down on the shutter release to hold the focus, if the light changes significantly in between you will not get a correctly exposed shot.
It all depends on how you have set the camera up in the first place. I use the "Star" button for focusing and the "Shutter release" for exposure (without AE lock) that way if the light changes you will still get correct exposure.
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Old 11-09-2008, 16:24   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Help! Pre-focusing for Action Shots

Not sure if this has already been mentioned so forgive me if it has.

The aperture you have selected and the AF point you are using could make a difference here. You can choose which focus point to use so can select any of the 9 points. You might be focusing on the fence and getting a slightly soft-focused result if you are using a wide aperture and thus the depth of field is too shallow to cope with the slight difference to the point where the horse is coming over the fence.

I would recommend you use the central AF point as it is likely to give you the best metering, especially if you are using spot metering mode. Set the aperture slightly narrower, perhaps f5.6 - 8 so that you give yourself a bit of leeway with the difference bewteen the fence and the horse. If you are a fair distance from the horse and fence, the difference between the two with regards BG bokeh will be minimal but the increased DoF will keep the horse sharper.

Hope that helps.

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