[petemc]

After talking with a mate last week and thinking lots I've decided to move from web development to photography. It was an easy decision to make really. I just thought whether I want to sit at a computer for the rest of my life programming, or be somewhere doing photography. I do worry that the exact same thing that happened with web design will happen with photography in that clients will dictate my photography and I'll end up hating it. However my friend pointed out that if you are that good you don't get that. He said he thinks I am. He said the key to getting there is talent and exposure. He told me I have the talent and that I just need the right exposure now. I definetly don't want to do stock photography or weddings. What I want, hope, to do is well I don't really know. I know what I don't want to end up doing. I would love to have people hire me and give me the freedom to do anything. I've done a few shoots for some local bands and it would be very cool to continue shooting for them. I would also love to do some more car photography. I don't know where I'm going but I know it'll be more interesting than computing. I'll meet more people. I'll get out more.

I have to remind myself that I can do it, to remind myself that everytime I've gone on a photo shoot I've always come back with the shots.

Any tips?

[ppuga]

I'm not a pro, this is just a hobbie for me, but I can tell you, do what you wanna do, and do what makes you happy.

Good luck!

[Pook]

Originally Posted by ppuga

I'm not a pro, this is just a hobbie for me, but I can tell you, do what you wanna do, and do what makes you happy.

Good luck!

It all depends what type of photography you do. Don't be too idealistic... you WILL be told what to shoot.. at the end of the day, clients are commisioning you to shoot what THEY want. It's money... why be arsy about it? It's still photography, and you're still being paid for doing what you love to do.

So what DO you shoot? How are you thinking about promoting yourself? Do you have a decent portfolio yet?

If you need any advice... just ask.

[petemc]

Originally Posted by Pook

It all depends what type of photography you do. Don't be too idealistic... you WILL be told what to shoot.. at the end of the day, clients are commisioning you to shoot what THEY want. It's money... why be arsy about it? It's still photography, and you're still being paid for doing what you love to do.

So what DO you shoot? How are you thinking about promoting yourself? Do you have a decent portfolio yet?

If you need any advice... just ask.

Yer I am expecting a certain amount of client bitching, but I'm hoping to have more freedom than I currently do with web design. I really enjoy band photography as so far as I've been allowed to wander around and take cool shots. Its one of those things where you can't really be told what to shoot you simply go there and shoot and enjoy the tunes. Obviously it would get annoying if I had to shoot bad music

I do have a photoblog but I'm thinking of building a more professional portfolio. As for promoting myself... I plan to tell everyone I'm a photographer, take every job I can, hand out business cards to anyone possible. As for what DO I shoot, um, anything that looks good really I enjoy bands, cars, architecture, landscapes. I would love to do more portraits or photos with people in if only to get over my shyness more.

[Pook]

You really need to concentrate on one genre you really like doing, and making a portfolio based on that. ALso, a second folio of "published" work is a good idea... this is where you'd put the varied stuff. This shows clients what you are about, and what your style is (personal folio) and the published work shows how versatile you can be.

Call to make appointments with magazines, publishers, ad agancies.... show your work as often as you can. Just telling people you're a photographer and handing out a card won't cut it I'm afraid.

Where are you based? For certain types of work, you really need to be in London.

You have to treat LOOKING for work, AS work... get up at 9am.. start calling people... start making appointments to see art directors at publishers... ad agancies... etc. Get known... even if it's known as "That pain in teh ass again"... at least your name is on people's minds.

Reshoot at least 1/3rd of your folio every 6 months.

Mailshots of your work on CDs, or giving people a link to a website DOES NOT WORK... these are busy people... send them a CD, and it goes in the bin. You need to go and see them in person!

As for shooting people... there are THOUSANDS of models out there who want prints for their book, so they'll shoot a test for prints only. Look on sites like Net Model etc.

Get over that shyness... you'll never make it if you're shy... you gotta be bold, brassy.. confident... EVERYONE wants to be a photographer, cos they think it's sexy.... well.. unless you're Nick Knight, it's not... but people think it is, so everyone wants to be one... the conpetition is fierce, so you gotta sell yourself. No one wants to commission someone who looks scared to death, or looks like they'll not be able to hack it.

SOrry if I'm being a bit brutal here... but it IS brutal... it's business... well it is to the people commissioning you, and people will NOT take risks with money. The more successful you become, the more true this becomes also, as your fee is higher.

Shyness = lack of confidence... therefore ability.... that's how THEY will see it.

[Pook]

Oh.. one more thing.. FEES!

Don't undercharge.... it makes you look stupid. For instance... if you got commissioned to shoot some pics for a holiday brochure.... be looking to charge at least £800 a day. If they balk at that... they're not worth working for. Believe me.. £800 for a photographer's day rate is LOW. An average day rate for a successful, established advertising guy is in the order of £3k.

Get a Copy of Beyond teh lens... I can't remember if it's the AoP or BIPP that publish it now. A quick Google will tell you.

[Steep]

On the matter of exposure, you need to go out and win a few magazine and if possible prestigious competitions, perhaps join the RPS. Nothing impresses like letters after your name

[petemc]

Originally Posted by Pook

You really need to concentrate on one genre you really like doing, and making a portfolio based on that. ALso, a second folio of "published" work is a good idea... this is where you'd put the varied stuff. This shows clients what you are about, and what your style is (personal folio) and the published work shows how versatile you can be.

Sounds like a plan. I'll keep my photoblog as my reserve portfolio of varied work and build a new one for clients.

Call to make appointments with magazines, publishers, ad agancies.... show your work as often as you can. Just telling people you're a photographer and handing out a card won't cut it I'm afraid.

Ok sounds good. Any tips what to say? "I'm a freelance photographer enquiring if you need any photoshoots doing?"

Where are you based? For certain types of work, you really need to be in London.

North West, near Liverpool which is great for bands.

You have to treat LOOKING for work, AS work... get up at 9am.. start calling people... start making appointments to see art directors at publishers... ad agancies... etc. Get known... even if it's known as "That pain in teh ass again"... at least your name is on people's minds.

Hmm nuts. I'm hoping to gradually move from web design to photography and won't be quitting my current job until I can afford to.

Reshoot at least 1/3rd of your folio every 6 months.

You mean redo old shots or simply update the portfolio with new content in various sections to keep it fresh?

Mailshots of your work on CDs, or giving people a link to a website DOES NOT WORK... these are busy people... send them a CD, and it goes in the bin. You need to go and see them in person!

Yer I got that feeling with web design.

As for shooting people... there are THOUSANDS of models out there who want prints for their book, so they'll shoot a test for prints only. Look on sites like Net Model etc.

Cool. A tad scary, but cool. It would seem a bit odd contacting some random stranger to do a photo shoot with, but then thats the thing I need to work on and one of the reasons for doing this.

Get over that shyness... you'll never make it if you're shy... you gotta be bold, brassy.. confident... EVERYONE wants to be a photographer, cos they think it's sexy.... well.. unless you're Nick Knight, it's not... but people think it is, so everyone wants to be one... the conpetition is fierce, so you gotta sell yourself. No one wants to commission someone who looks scared to death, or looks like they'll not be able to hack it.

Yup definetly. Its why I need to do this. Sitting at a computer is doing nothing for my social skills. Getting out and meeting people is. I have to remind myself that I am a good photographer and that I can do anything if I put my mind to it. I know that if I am not confident I won't get the shot and then I'll regret it later. This is something I hate and in recent months I have forced myself to get over it. Like my recent street photography shots. I just went up to random strangers and asked to take their picture. It works and it shows I can do it. Through photography I have found an ability to push myself to get the shot. I just have to remind myself of this and I know I will go far.

SOrry if I'm being a bit brutal here... but it IS brutal... it's business... well it is to the people commissioning you, and people will NOT take risks with money. The more successful you become, the more true this becomes also, as your fee is higher.

Shyness = lack of confidence... therefore ability.... that's how THEY will see it.

No worries. I was hoping for some real world advice instead of lots of people wishing me luck. It gives me things to do, things to work on. Cheers

Originally Posted by Pook

Oh.. one more thing.. FEES!

Don't undercharge.... it makes you look stupid. For instance... if you got commissioned to shoot some pics for a holiday brochure.... be looking to charge at least £800 a day. If they balk at that... they're not worth working for. Believe me.. £800 for a photographer's day rate is LOW. An average day rate for a successful, established advertising guy is in the order of £3k.

Get a Copy of Beyond teh lens... I can't remember if it's the AoP or BIPP that publish it now. A quick Google will tell you.

Yup I also got that with web design. Clients who want a £2000 site for £200. If they can't afford it, screw them. More hassle than they are worth.

[CT]

Tough game! :wink:

I've made a lot of money out of photography but I never felt the urge to go full time at it. I did go full time for a few years after I retired but I was never dependant on it to put the food on the table. Some sound advice there from Pook. I've known a few photographers who've turned pro and some of the best of them have failed through lack of business acumen, not photographic ability. There are plenty of pros about who are really nothing special - they just know how to promote themselves.

Try to look professional when you turn up to meet people - a suit and tie rather than jeans and trainers, at least gives the impression you're not working off the back of a wheelbarrow somewhere. Good luck Pete if you decide to go for it.

[petemc]

Originally Posted by Steep

On the matter of exposure, you need to go out and win a few magazine and if possible prestigious competitions, perhaps join the RPS. Nothing impresses like letters after your name

Yer I plan to submit some of my best shots to photography magazines if only to get them in there. I have a friend, the one who convinced me to do this, who wants to move into marketing / Page Ranking for bands so hopefully that will help

[petemc]

Originally Posted by CT

Tough game! :wink:

I've made a lot of money out of photography but I never felt the urge to go full time at it. I did go full time for a few years after I retired but I was never dependant on it to put the food on the table. Some sound advice there from Pook. I've known a few photographers who've turned pro and some of the best of them have failed through lack of business acumen, not photographic ability. There are plenty of pros about who are really nothing special - they just know how to promote themselves.

Try to look professional when you turn up to meet people - a suit and tie rather than jeans and trainers, at least gives the impression you're not working off the back of a wheelbarrow somewhere. Good luck Pete if you decide to go for it.

Yer exactly. I know plenty of bad web designers who get the job simply cos people know them. My mate told me that he's working on a web site for a local photographer who takes pictures for the FA and he said that I'm a better photographer. Taking pictures is easy in comparison to getting contacts. But nothing worth doing is ever easy. Suit eh. Nuts I was hoping to be one of those trendy photographers that don't really exist. Like that guy who runs a large papperazzi agency in London, the Australian bloke. But I guess he can be that way since he's made it.

[Arkady]

Go for it Pete - my line of work is relatively straightforward - wait for people to start killing each other then photograph them.
I'm frantically building up lists of people and talking to them now, so that when I leave the Army and 'go solo' I'll have an established client base to sell to who already know the calibre of my product.
The picture-taking really is the easy part, it's the logistics and sales part that really b*gg*rs people up in the end.
I have tentative 'OK's from Getty and PA to freelance for them when I leave in 3 years' time, but it'll still involve getting out there and doing stuff almost 'on spec' to begin with. Which is a scary thought for a morgage-payer...

[Matty]

Wow...some really good advice from everyone Pete...

Pete Said
I was hoping for some real world advice instead of lots of people wishing me luck.

Good luck!

[Pook]

Originally Posted by Steep

On the matter of exposure, you need to go out and win a few magazine and if possible prestigious competitions, perhaps join the RPS. Nothing impresses like letters after your name

I hate to disagree, but no one gives a stuff about letters after your name. I got letters after my name, but I don;t use them becaue A) no one cares, and B) you look like a knob if you do. Plus... no one, ever, has once asked to see my degree(s).. what they DO ask to see tho, is my portfolio. NO one cares a fig about letters after your name. Also....No one cares about magazine competitions either.. the only competitions that anyone in the industry cares about are the AoP awards, the Fuji awards, and a handful of others... certainly no magazine awards... with the exception of the BJPP stuff, as that's a professional publication. For instance, winning a competition in Amateur Photogapher will not really do you much good... not unless the REST of your book is as good as that winning image... the fact is... no one in the industry really cares what's in Amateur Photographer.. because it's an amateur publication, and no one reads it except amateurs. Sounds snobbish? Yes it is.... unfortunately, it's true.

No.... there's only one way: Get out there... use some shoe leather, and show your book to as many people as you possibly can. Like I said... treat fiding work AS your job. Get up at 9am, start phoning, start making appointments, start seeing people. How else are they going to even know you exist??? Not by seeing you as a winner in a amateur photography publication, that's for certain.

Even if you DO have a great folio... you still have to convince then that you're reliable... and can deliver the goods time and time again, on schedule, and on demand.

Trust me... it's ******* hard work to get anywhere in anything except weddings and local stuff. It takes work.. hard work, and dedication. There is no magic way in... You just have to consistently take photographs that people will want to buy.. keep doing so, and keep showing people... but people who are in a position to actually buy them. No point showing all and sundry on the internet (not that there's anything wrong with that.. it just won't earn you anything most of the time) when you should be showing ad agencies, and publishers. After all... these are the people who you want to buy your pictures.

I apologise if this is not what you want to hear, or if it seems hard.. but it IS hard. At the end of the day, you won't be able to blag it... either you're good enough, or you're not. There's only ONE measure of that, and that's your work. If your work is good enough, you will succeed.... but you still have to ensure that the right people are seeing your work. They won't come to you... you have to go to them. Sending your work to amateur photographer for instance, won;t do it... the people who matter don't read it.

Like you said... you don;t want people wishing you good luck... Luck has nothing to do with it... nothing whatsoever. Skill and hard work however, does.

That's my advice.... I won't wish you luck... I will wish you success... after all, THAT'S what you want.

Go for it fella!!!

[petemc]

Thanks for the support guys The band I sold some photos too wants me to shoot their next gig. Given that they didn't like the idea of £15/image for 4 photos I'm thinking £150 for the night and seeing what they say. As I'm just starting out I want to increase my contacts more than make money. You can't buy good contacts, I don't think I haven't seen them at Tesco thats for sure