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General photography questions and answers: Discuss infrared fhotography - beginner...Hi Ive got today my "first" infrared filter Hoya 72 - of course I checked it before got to work ...
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Old 12-06-2012, 20:23   #1 (permalink)
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Lightbulb infrared fhotography - beginner

Hi
Ive got today my "first" infrared filter Hoya 72 - of course I checked it before got to work and....... now I know how much I dont know - if that makes any sens lol

Is it any chance to get the finale view in capture nx ? (as im nikon user)
Im just trying to "runaway" from Photoshop as long as I can lol

Any experience ?
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Old 13-06-2012, 09:50   #2 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

A good place to start is view some of the videos at Life Pixel Infrared Photoshop Video Tutorials | LifePixel Digital Infrared Photography IR Conversion, Modification & Scratched Sensor Repair - lot's of good info there
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Old 13-06-2012, 11:59   #3 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I'd recommend that place too. Some great videos on IR photography there.
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Old 13-06-2012, 12:19   #4 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Your D700 should have a place where you can save a custom white balance. This is the best advice I can give you as you need to have proper white balance. I Have one camera that I use a shing-ray filter on the end of a lens and I do the white balance the same as my converted cameras. I place a green "Mid range" color correction, then I place an expo disc on it and shoot a white balance at the sun. Don't look at the sun, just cover your viewer and point it and take a shot. Save this so you can have the same looking pictures to work from and learn some adjustments that have some structure. It dosen't matter where you go to tweak your pictures, just start out right. Once you have it saved and you can pull it up anytime or take it the same way with the sun in the general area. you can try the grass and all the other things that will want to get in to your photo tool box. Good luck and welcome to the IR side of life.
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Old 13-06-2012, 14:46   #5 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Thx guys will see all this " material " , will try study carefully lol
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Old 15-06-2012, 09:27   #6 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

The places suggested by Silver are perfect. You should go for this once and try to gain some new knowledge from there.
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Old 15-06-2012, 10:42   #7 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Boofers definitely has it right. Get your custom white balance set correctly. I've heard other tips like (with your filter on shoot bright green grass in sunlight - in auto wb mode) then set that shot to your custom wb.

If you don't get the wb correct - your images just look very red.

Oh and don't forget to maybe post some shots in the infrared thread.
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Old 15-06-2012, 12:13   #8 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I have some experience in Infrared now. I have put most of what I know on my website on the techniques page. My website link is below in my signature block.
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Old 15-06-2012, 12:21   #9 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

wonderful pictures Dave,,. You always have something to add that has helpped me over come my slow learning curve...Thanks
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Old 15-06-2012, 12:34   #10 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Your Sig is not showing - can you post the link ?
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Old 15-06-2012, 12:39   #11 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

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Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
Your Sig is not showing - can you post the link ?
Click on his name and select 'view public profile' to see the signature link.
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Old 15-06-2012, 13:39   #12 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

used to be easier to go to dave's sight,,,must of been something I ate, uh oh,,
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Old 16-06-2012, 17:52   #13 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Another good link is here irphotocom - Home
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Old 19-06-2012, 14:50   #14 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Hi guys
Finally today was sunny day , I had a bit of time before go to work, so I set up the lovely gras as a white balance and........ And after all the pics are still red , its goiny worse rhan I thought lol
But will still keep trying .........
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Old 19-06-2012, 16:32   #15 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Did you take the grass in Auto White balance (with the filter on) - then set that image to the Custom WB.

With the custom WB - set then try taking a shot of the grass (with filter on again). Look at the preview of the image on your camera - It should now show up as different colour - ideally a nice whitish.

Also don't use Adobe Camera RAW to process the images - it turns them red again
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Old 19-06-2012, 17:10   #16 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Chrisa has it right and I would think if all the settings are set right and then your white balance is taken and set to custom on your camera,,then it should work. This happened to me and I have a converted camera,,,supposed to be easier but it is all relatively the same steps. Any who if your getting red you still have a picture. that means your exsposure is near the right place. thats a good thing. you can always play with an edit of black and white. It would show the white bushes. You could just desaturate the red, a lot of people do it that way and it will get you in the ball park. Glad to hear you finally got a chance to get out like you said. You keep trying and you will make it.
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Old 19-06-2012, 17:18   #17 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

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Originally Posted by Tad View Post
Hi guys
Finally today was sunny day , I had a bit of time before go to work, so I set up the lovely gras as a white balance and........ And after all the pics are still red , its goiny worse rhan I thought lol
But will still keep trying .........
look at the link posted to lifepixel - specifically the video that says

"Infrared RAW file white balance issues & solutions

This video explains that Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom cannot properly interpret IR RAW files. Shows how to use Nikon Capture NX2 and Canon Digital Photo Professional instead. Also explains how some Nikon IR cameras cannot properly set a white balance in camera, working in RAW with NX2 is the best alternative method for proper IR WB."

as I think it deals with exactly your setup
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Old 19-06-2012, 18:45   #18 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisa View Post
Did you take the grass in Auto White balance (with the filter on) - then set that image to the Custom WB.

With the custom WB - set then try taking a shot of the grass (with filter on again). Look at the preview of the image on your camera - It should now show up as different colour - ideally a nice whitish.

Also don't use Adobe Camera RAW to process the images - it turns them red again
I took the picture without the ir filter, thx again, will try tomorrow of course if wont rain again lol
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Old 19-06-2012, 18:50   #19 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

Silver,
I noticed you don't list your camera gear, I looked to see if you had a D700 and maybe your personal white balance step would be handy. I just looked around on flicker, "very rare" for me and the D700 seems to take one heck of a good infrared picture. I use canon gear and really can't help to much. Tad did send me a message to see if I could help alittle more one on one and I refered him to post up some threads as that would help him out the most. I hope I'm not making you feel like I know everything or riding your pony. If you look at some of my pictures I have posted lately you would know that I am having fun post processing and the edge of good to bad look the same to me some times. I do however have a new life with ACR after a good lesson from Dave Canon as he reminded me of the calibrate tab. It has made a world of difference for me in some ways after a slight tweek to the blue hue on one of my cameras, it now only needs a little light as I tend to shoot dark. I know chrisa said that but i used to really ride ACR and looked really bad after Dave made a one sentence statement about that tab,
When it comes to lifepixel, they have done amazing conversions for me,,,but when it come down to it they are no different then you are me, they just take pictures.
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Old 20-06-2012, 08:02   #20 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

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Originally Posted by Boofers View Post
Silver,
I noticed you don't list your camera gear, I looked to see if you had a D700 and maybe your personal white balance step would be handy. I just looked around on flicker, "very rare" for me and the D700 seems to take one heck of a good infrared picture. I use canon gear and really can't help to much. Tad did send me a message to see if I could help alittle more one on one and I refered him to post up some threads as that would help him out the most. I hope I'm not making you feel like I know everything or riding your pony. If you look at some of my pictures I have posted lately you would know that I am having fun post processing and the edge of good to bad look the same to me some times. I do however have a new life with ACR after a good lesson from Dave Canon as he reminded me of the calibrate tab. It has made a world of difference for me in some ways after a slight tweek to the blue hue on one of my cameras, it now only needs a little light as I tend to shoot dark. I know chrisa said that but i used to really ride ACR and looked really bad after Dave made a one sentence statement about that tab,
When it comes to lifepixel, they have done amazing conversions for me,,,but when it come down to it they are no different then you are me, they just take pictures.
for IR I have a 600d with 'full spectrum' conversion and use a 590nm filter from maxmax at the moment at least

I am not sure why you posted to me,. I was trying to point Tad to a resource that has helped me a great deal,. in fact it answers nearly all (or actually all) of the questions (s)he asks even down to showing examples using the software (s)he uses and in a way that is accessible and easy for beginners without dumbing down

lifepixel probably know more about IR images than I ever will, they don't really take pictures but they do know a trick or two more about how to process IR than I am ever likely to learn,. they have a 'vested' interest in making IR more popular because they will sell more conversions, that's why they've put resource into making such a great resource
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Old 20-06-2012, 12:34   #21 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

This video explains that Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom cannot properly interpret IR RAW files. Shows how to use Nikon Capture NX2 and Canon Digital Photo Professional instead. Also explains how some Nikon IR cameras cannot properly set a white balance in camera, working in RAW with NX2 is the best alternative method for proper IR WB."

as I think it deals with exactly your setup

"""From this post above. I have been able to work around some of the draw backs of software. I thought you had a D700 and for a reactionary reason to the very last term....."proper IR WB". No harm in a little debate. I have been a member of lifepixel sence they started and agree with you completely. I reserve the right to protray the WB steps the way I freely reserve the right to not shoot grass as I have termed it to be a learning method. It is a rule I made that I would have a filtered method which is in short lifepixels explanation of a gary card made easy. Takeing a WB to me is never a one step and one WB setting as IR reflects over under sideways down and as I have tried one of the methods of takeing new WB settings as the light changes is a waste of time for me. Beleaveing in the method at the moment that I use dosen't mean I will change it later. That one area makes life pixel to me the same as anyone that takes pictures in IR just a bunch of photographers. I hope you feel that we had a little light hearted debate over a on going and growing field and I hope Tad is as happy about the challage he has taken on. I wish him the best as I know you do because you have tried to help him and everyone of us sence I've stumbled across the threads. Just heldp me get up and keep going. ?Thanks your friend Steven "Boofers"
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Old 20-06-2012, 12:43   #22 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I wasn't posting in response to what others had said (actually I didn't really read them) - it was in response to Tad's issue trying to make something work,.

I am very open to other ways of doing things and actually I have no idea if the methods listed on lifepixel are the 'best way' but they are one way that works to get people started and I think their videos are good at explaining things (it helped me a lot when I first started with IR)

There's definitely more than one way to do things which is one of the neat things about photography,. "seeing Red" as in Tad's case leads me to believe they have only just begun with IR and it is a great journey and I hope to see their images when posted
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Old 24-06-2012, 11:15   #23 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I can only urge folks again to look at the IR section on my web site. Unfortunately the information provided by Lifepixels is NOT correct with respect to processing Raw files in LR and PS. It is true that you will find LR and ACR limited to 2000k and that the actual WB for these near infrared images is less than this so it does initially appear that you are stuck. However, Adobe recognised this some time ago and provided a fix which works very well. There is sufficient details on my web site and a link to Adobe labs.

In summary Adobe Labs provide a (free) DNG Profile Editor. Its main purpose is to facilitate the production of a bespoke calibration profile for your normal (non-IR)camera. You photograph a colour chart (e.g. Xrite Colour Checker Passport) convert the Raw file to DNG and use the DNG Profile Editor to create a bespoke profile which it will then install in an Adobe shared area on your computer. The profile is camera serial number specific so when I import Raw images into LR this bespoke profile is applied to all imported image taken on my EOS 5D2 so I get very accurate colour. The DNG profile Editor is well documented and has a chapter on how to correct the WB issue for IR photography. This is even simpler than for standard photography in that you do not need to measure anything as the editor creates a fixed offset (they advise on a value) which brings the image into range so that the as shot value will be correctly set. Again this profile is associated with the specific camera so any images I now import to LR from my EOS 20D IR are automatically corrected and I have neutral IR images and you can still make manual WB adjustments if you wish.

I am surprised that the lifepixels folks do not know this though I only became aware of it because I spotted the chapter on IR when looking at a bespoke colour profile. However, I am aware that other IR enthusiasts know of this Adobe fix.
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Old 23-07-2012, 16:41   #24 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I have to report that I tried the DNG Profile Editor with my enhanced colour 20D conversion, and I could not get it to get the right colour to appear. Seemed easy enough instruction - just move the sliders at the bottom of tool. It seemed to make very little difference to the image on screen.

I note to that you have to convert your RAWs to DNGs for this to work it seems.
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Old 23-07-2012, 17:35   #25 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

I too found the DNG editor a little confusing and sence the tab in ACR for calibrating your camera worked wonders for me, I stuck with it and my expo disc for white balance. I would like to know if Tad is taking color pictures and having the time of his life. A good color picture always makes my day. It is somewhat sad that people over the years have givin' up on the forums because they might feel that they can't take a good enough picture. What's true about the forums is for those of us who talk a lot, we still take pictures that suck and have to go out again to find a better one. Please don't feel alone, we love to listen too.
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Old 23-07-2012, 19:02   #26 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

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Originally Posted by Boofers View Post
It is somewhat sad that people over the years have givin' up on the forums because they might feel that they can't take a good enough picture. What's true about the forums is for those of us who talk a lot, we still take pictures that suck and have to go out again to find a better one. Please don't feel alone, we love to listen too.
Amen.
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Old 25-07-2012, 14:41   #27 (permalink)
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Re: infrared fhotography - beginner

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I have to report that I tried the DNG Profile Editor with my enhanced colour 20D conversion, and I could not get it to get the right colour to appear. Seemed easy enough instruction - just move the sliders at the bottom of tool. It seemed to make very little difference to the image on screen.

I note to that you have to convert your RAWs to DNGs for this to work it seems.
It is a while since I set this up because you only have to produce the profile once. I cannot remember whether the adjustment is visible at the time you create the profile; probaby not. I recall just setting a reasonable vlaue offset and then checked a selection of IR Raw files and confirmed that they were no longer clipped. It is true that you need to convert a Raw to DNG to use the DNG profile editor and, once you produce the profile you must follow the guidance to install the profile. You also need to set the preferences in LR which make this the default profile for that Camera. Once you have done this there is no need to continue to convert images to DNG format. I am not sure that PS will automatically select this new profile but you can select it from the drop down list in camera calibration. When I import IR Raw images from my 20D IR, they are rather red initially but part way through the import process the profile is applied and they all sequentially turn neutral. This fix by Adobe Labs definitely works and others have used it as well.
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