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General photography questions and answers: Discuss a little bit of latitude ??...i have noticed a few posts in the members gallery etc being commented on as ' soft ' , ' ...
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Old 25-04-2005, 20:19   #1 (permalink)
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a little bit of latitude ??

i have noticed a few posts in the members gallery etc being commented on as ' soft ' , ' too dark ' and ' burned out ' .

this may be the case in some or lots of the pics, but i would like to say that for one, the compression used to get the pix to the postable size will make some pic very soft, and this can also burn out some fine detail in others ,

i take all my pix in nikon raw mode, 6.1 meg , and have to reduce these to about 100k to post em, so detail will be lost ,
another factor is peeps setup of monitors and also the varying brands and quality we all use,

all i am saying is that when commenting on others pix, please take into account these factors before saying some of the above things, as most of the time peeps are looking for constuctive criticisme, and cant see anything wrong with a pic when seen on their own pc ?

all comment welcome , lol

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Old 25-04-2005, 20:22   #2 (permalink)
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Hear hear, I get a lot of that about my pics posted here, i limit the size to about 50k so as not to use up too much of your bandwidth and do get comments about bieng soft or burnt highlights, if only peeps could see the A3 prints. Oh well.
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Old 25-04-2005, 20:49   #3 (permalink)
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Maybe your/their technique for down sizing images is wrong.

Try the following method to see if it improves, It works for me.

One of the best ways to save images for the web in photoshop is:

File>Save for Web. Select JPEG, set compression quality to maximum,and tick the ICC profile box.
Goto optimize menu (this is a little button above the optimized check box) and select Optimize to File Size> select Current Settings and enter the file size (max 160k for TPF).
Click OK, then Save, enter a name for the file, then save.


HTH.

Matt.
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Old 25-04-2005, 20:50   #4 (permalink)
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I suggest if you have an image that you think is not shown well by it's limited size here, that you also post a link to a larger version hosted on your own web space where it can be seen to best advantage. I do understand your point of view but at the same time if you post an image you need to expect reactions based on what people can see not what you think it should look like.

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Old 25-04-2005, 20:57   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steep
I suggest if you have an image that you think is not shown well by it's limited size here, that you also post a link to a larger version hosted on your own web space where it can be seen to best advantage. I do understand your point of view but at the same time if you post an image you need to expect reactions based on what people can see not what you think it should look like.

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fine, but who is to say your monitor is setup correct and not mine , or the other way round ?? just for example ,

and my point isnt getting at the size of images on this site, i am saying that compression does take away detail and will blow out some areas of an image,

and i use and pay for my own personal website to promote other things more important that photographs

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Old 25-04-2005, 21:04   #6 (permalink)
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I'd have to say that the main, well the whole reason really, we post pics here is for people to comment and criticise, good or bad. Isn't that what we're all about? We'd soon get fed up with Wow Fantastic Great Shot responses all the while. Criticism of my shots never worries me at all, in fact I welcome it.

Couple of points though. If you're shooting in raw, you'll obviously be reducing your file size to post in Gallery. If you reduced your file to the max allowable prior to uploading to Gallery the compression software would have no effect and you'd see your pics at their best. The other thing is that when you reduce a file in size like that you inevitably lose a little definition and the resized file will benefit from a re-sharpen - or better still don't apply any sharpening at all until after you've reducd the file size.

I agree we're quite limited in the file sizes we can use, and we can only judge a pic by what we see on our own monitors which is why all of us should ensure that our monitors are reasonably calibrated. If you have any specific instances of what you feel is undue criticism then let's have a heads up on the thread and we'll have a look at it. I know I've had a dig at Gary a couple of times about his studio lighting but it was meant to be good natured and helpful, I don't doubt Gary's ability from some of the fine work I've seen him turn in.

Hope that helps fellers, but it's a fine line between a bit of leeway and just not commenting on someone'e pics for fear of offending, which after all is the far easier thing to do. :wink:
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Old 25-04-2005, 21:07   #7 (permalink)
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hmm this is a tough one really, i say what i see, Garys shots are always edited by him to be high key, so the first time i saw one of his, to me, it looked burnt out, now i know he does high key, i accept that. Burnt out areas on images to me are bits that the detail is lost in due to over-brightness, i suffer from it alot with piccies i take, especially swans, lol..i will bear in mind compression issues in future, ive just spent 20 mins getting some shots down to 50kb or less, our 160kb is quiet good compared to these if just shopped!
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Old 25-04-2005, 21:17   #8 (permalink)
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thanks for your comment CT, and your quite right ,

i have no specific threads i want to highlight, but sometimes all you get is 'its a bit blown out ' or ' its a bit soft ' , i know what these terms mean and indicate, but others less experienced wont have a clue what someone is saying, or even how to try to rectify it ,

i had a few comments to use the ' USM ' wtf is a usm, and where do you find it ?i have now worked it out i think ?( un-sharpen-mask ), but it took me a while and i still dont know how to use it,lol

criticisme should be ballance with advice on how to rectify a possible problem with pic, dont you think,
rather than leaving the picture taker wondering what to do next .

i am not starting a war or having a go at an individual ( honestly )but think b4 commenting , as some dont .

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Old 25-04-2005, 21:30   #9 (permalink)
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Well I do often work on folks pics and post an edited result. I'm going to have to do less of that because I'm using up my web space :lol: I'm also acutely aware that not all folk appreciate me buggering about with their pics, but where I do it's trying to be helpful. It's often easier to do that than post a complicated 'How To' especially where PS is concerned.

Part of the reason with the new mods being appointed is to free up the Admin geezers to develop the site and get the 'How To's' and reviews up to date. There's a lot to be done and some dedicated Photoshop, PSP tutorials for various thins will become available.

In the meantime if you're stuck with something like USM (Unsharp Mask) then just sing out and I'm sure someone will pop up to help you out.
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Old 25-04-2005, 21:52   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyPix
fine, but who is to say your monitor is setup correct and not mine , or the other way round ?? just for example ,

and my point isnt getting at the size of images on this site, i am saying that compression does take away detail and will blow out some areas of an image,

and i use and pay for my own personal website to promote other things more important that photographs

MP
Ok but I'm not going to preface every comment I make with "My monitor may be set up differently but..."

Compression? personally I never use it if at all possible for those exact reasons. If you post an image that is less than you think it can be and invite comments I can't be held to account if I comment negatively.

Surely you have some isp webspace? or can at least spare 5mb of your paid webspace to host an image or two that you think need to be seen at their best. My own paid for webspace is 1gb and I find it very hard to get even close to filling that.

(pimping bit) I use www.jaguarpc.net based in the US, inexpensive and extremely reliable.
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Old 25-04-2005, 22:25   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyPix
thanks for your comment CT, and your quite right ,

i have no specific threads i want to highlight, but sometimes all you get is 'its a bit blown out ' or ' its a bit soft ' , i know what these terms mean and indicate, but others less experienced wont have a clue what someone is saying, or even how to try to rectify it ,

i had a few comments to use the ' USM ' wtf is a usm, and where do you find it ?i have now worked it out i think ?( un-sharpen-mask ), but it took me a while and i still dont know how to use it,lol

criticisme should be ballance with advice on how to rectify a possible problem with pic, dont you think,
rather than leaving the picture taker wondering what to do next .

i am not starting a war or having a go at an individual ( honestly )but think b4 commenting , as some dont .

MP
Just a few thoughts


Although I agree with everything above the site does have the answers to these questions contained in articles and the A-Z Glossary on the main pages. We can’t force people to wonder around the whole of the site but if they did they would learn quite a lot more. We have actively promoted the tutorials, articles and reviews and also encourage questions from members. You will never see anyone on here say “not that question again” or “as a photographer you should know that, its basics” because that’s not our style. We never forget that we all started somewhere and the only silly question is the one that you didn’t ask.
As CT has pointed out, one of the many reasons for the recent addition of moderators is to spread out our time to allow us to develop the site. That includes updating certain articles, writing more tutorials and promoting the site to get decent search engine listings, getting more members to join to expand our friendly community. With that it brings new ideas, fresh talent and more skills that we can all benefit from.

The competition and members galleries are run for free with the main aims to get people to photograph things they may otherwise not, look at pictures in a new light and gain experience at the same time. The level of critique I and many others give are usually aimed generally at the skill level of the member who has submitted the photograph. Without naming names, I would be far more critical of a picture submitted by one of our professional photographer than I would of a member who has just started out on the photography road. I am sure that Matt, myself, CT and even Gary understand that having a correctly calibrated monitor is essential at their level of photography, to some of our other members this would make no difference what so ever. That’s the leeway I give and expect. Critique is fine as long as its constructive, saying an image is dark or under saturated is fine in my book as to correct it you brighten it or increase the saturation. Should we say “to improve that shot you could increase the brightness and saturation a little” instead of “ the picture is a little dark and under saturated”…to me it’s the same.

If someone suggests a more advance adjustment and the member doesn’t understand, then that’s up to the member to ask how to perform the technique and then we can help them to learn. That’s how we all learn..from each other and there is nothing wrong with admitting that a certain technique is too advanced and requesting a tutorial to help out.
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Old 25-04-2005, 22:50   #12 (permalink)
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And can I just say that I completely understand the utter frustration of people trying to get into Photoshop et al on their own. It's a massive learning curve to use these packages effectively and it takes time. Photography without Photoshop these days is like sex without an orgasm (I'd imagine). When you have the time just open a pic, any pic, and play around with it, hitting all the buttons, trying out all the effects and filters., you can always revert to your origianal file at any time. You'll learn more by expeimenting than you might imagine. You have to get in there and play around. There are always tutorials for what you'll be trying to do via the 'Help' button.

Once you have a good grasp of what a 'Mask' or 'Selection' is - they're the same thing - you'll be well on your way to being able to do ANYTHING. I think I might have to do a basic mask 'How To' :wink:
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Old 25-04-2005, 22:52   #13 (permalink)
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I think i need a complete dummys dads guide to photoshop !
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Old 25-04-2005, 22:55   #14 (permalink)
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Steep,
since yo ask,

my website is dedicated to a UK charity for genetically disabled childeren, of which my 14 year old son suffers from,

it is not apropriot to use valuable space on this site for the perpose of my hobby, it is fully dedicated to the charity of which i am also a committee member ,

Steve,
this site is great and i hope it continues to be so as it grows, i am not alone in my comments, however i see its the minority, i have been there b4 and i stand by what i said, i have conrubuted to different forums for many years , and even moderated on one for 18 months , i know the effort that goes into buliding , maintaining and running website,

as mentioned, photography is my hobby, ergo my stress relief, and i bloody need it sometimes,

i will leave it there

MP
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