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General photography questions and answers: Discuss Monitors...I often see a CRT recommended for photo editing rather than an LCD but I find it a little confusing. ...
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:04   #1 (permalink)
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I often see a CRT recommended for photo editing rather than an LCD but I find it a little confusing.

I have a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 2070SB CRT & a Mitsubishi 2080UX+ LCD as much as I keep trying the CRT I find myself going back to the LCD as it gives sharper clearer pictures.

So what looks nice and sharp on my LCD looks a little soft on my CRT.

Is this the norm or have I got a bad CRT?
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:05   #2 (permalink)
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I think its to do with colour rendition rather than sharpness.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:11   #3 (permalink)
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The only time you might see a major difference between CRT and LCD quality, is if you have the refresh rate set too low on the CRT.

I'd recommend 75Hz minimum - 85Hz if the monitor supports it. At 85Hz, you've almost completely eliminated screen flicker and it will also make your eyes last longer.

Could also try using the 'degauss' function on your CRT from time to time. Otherwise certain colour combinations (red next to black, for instance) can appear a little 'muddy'.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:13   #4 (permalink)
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Well I have exactley the same image on screen showing a landscape and the colour looks the same but the detail is far better (sharper) on the LCD.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:16   #5 (permalink)
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Does your CRT have a sharpness setting? Mine does (well, did - only got my TFT here at the moment).
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:19   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GfK
Does your CRT have a sharpness setting? Mine does (well, did - only got my TFT here at the moment).
I was looking for the sharpness setting but could not find one.........can't believe there isn't one somewhere in the menu.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:30   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P-E
I was looking for the sharpness setting but could not find one.........can't believe there isn't one somewhere in the menu.
If I remember right, it isn't called 'sharpness'.... they use another word for it. I'm afraid it escapes me at the moment though...
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:36   #8 (permalink)
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How old is the CRT compared to the LCD?

CRT monitors get softer with time. LCDs don't.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:37   #9 (permalink)
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I best dig the manual out and see if I can find what it comes under.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:39   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingerz
How old is the CRT compared to the LCD?

CRT monitors get softer with time. LCDs don't.
CRT was purchased 2yrs ago, LCD approx 1yr.
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Old 23-11-2005, 15:57   #11 (permalink)
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My LCD is better than my CRT, it might be just a good LCD and a crap CRT.
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:03   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyC
My LCD is better than my CRT, it might be just a good LCD and a crap CRT.
It's looking that way Sammy.

I'm thinking (MAYBE) if I edit on the CRT it will look soft viewed on a LCD but if I edit on the LCD it will look over sharpened on a CRT :eyesup:

Going to spit my dummy out soon. :lol:
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:05   #13 (permalink)
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I'd go with what you see on the LCD if the CRT image is noticably softer. On the LCD, the image is never going to look any sharper than it *actually* is.
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:11   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GfK
I'd go with what you see on the LCD if the CRT image is noticably softer. On the LCD, the image is never going to look any sharper than it *actually* is.
It is such a nice big viewing area.......although the 2080ux is plenty big enough.
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:20   #15 (permalink)
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I tend to find that the brightness of an image displayed on an LCD changes slightly as you pan up and down the screen (such as when scrolling an image from top to bottom) which can sometimes be a pain when image editing. Has anyone else noticed this, or am I going slightly mad?
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:39   #16 (permalink)
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I have been doing a great deal of reading up on this recently, my now ageing TFT is in of dire need of being replaced which has forced me to look into what is suitable to replace it.

The scrolling issues is to do with the viewing angles that your TFT can reproduce, specifically what type of panel your TFT is using. Some have a wider viewing angle than others but sometimes at the expense of speed, colour accuracy, gamma shift and refresh rates. This can be very confusing as buying the best rated TFT could prove disastrous if it has been rated on its speed rather than colour definition and vice versa for a games player where colours may not need to be as accurate but speed would be essential.

To complicate matters, the same manufacturer may use different panels in the same range of TFT’s depending on size and in some cases they even use different panels in the same model. It’s an absolute minefield and all TFT’s, even with the same panel are not created equally.
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:43   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
I have been doing a great deal of reading up on this recently, my now ageing TFT is in of dire need of being replaced which has forced me to look into what is suitable to replace it.

The scrolling issues is to do with the viewing angles that your TFT can reproduce, specifically what type of panel your TFT is using. Some have a wider viewing angle than others but sometimes at the expense of speed, colour accuracy, gamma shift and refresh rates. This can be very confusing as buying the best rated TFT could prove disastrous if it has been rated on its speed rather than colour definition and vice versa for a games player where colours may not need to be as accurate but speed would be essential.

To complicate matters, the same manufacturer may use different panels in the same range of TFT’s depending on size and in some cases they even use different panels in the same model. It’s an absolute minefield and all TFT’s, even with the same panel are not created equally.
Its all true. And lets not forget dead pixels and the silly policies that mean we have to live with them.

Fortunately my TFT (HP f1723) has only one, and its right on the very edge of the screen. Unfortunately, its bright yellow so it notices a lot on dark images but I mostly don't notice it any more.
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Old 23-11-2005, 16:51   #18 (permalink)
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I was lucky in the fact I had no (not that I have seen) dead pixels but it was a worry when I first switched on for the first time.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:16   #19 (permalink)
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I am lucky that my TFT has no dead pixels either, unfortunately it does have appalling back light bleed issues and shocking colour uniformity...issues that to most gamers would not be a problem, but for image editing it is virtually useless.

The problem with replacing it is that TFT panels that are recommended for image editing are few and far between and silly prices...take a look at Eizo's models or the LaCies, both do ranges aimed at this market but starting at around £1000 for 19" model it is shocking. The panels that these monitors are using can be found in other TFT's at a fraction of the cost (£350) but the reviews are all aimed at gamers and not the serious image editor. Testing in a shop is no good either as the monitors have not been calibrated, the customers have all been playing with settings and shop lighting also plays havoc with accurately trying to judge colour casts, blacks, pure whites and clean progressions.

I have been going around in circles for the last two weeks looking into this.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:26   #20 (permalink)
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Well I'm going to stick with my LCD for now so apologies for any overshrpened over saturated bad pictures in advance

Getting Spyder2 delivered tomorrow so hopefully will get some calibration done.

Be interested in your findings Steve.........if you get any
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:27   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
I have been going around in circles for the last two weeks looking into this.
I'm not surprised, it sounds like a nightmare. I'd almost be tempted to buy a LaCie just to avoid the weeks of research. It's not like they're bad monitors anyway.

Why not get a CRT? Or is space an issue for you? Good CRTs still beat LCDs for quality at the moment, although the gap is narrowing every year.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:32   #22 (permalink)
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Space is an issue really and although I will spend the money on either an Eizo or LaCie if required, I hate the fact that these monitors are using identical panels as much cheaper units from other companies. I am sure that there must be something out there that is a fraction of the cost and almost as good as a monitor so called dedicated to image editing.

My search continues...I'll keep you informed
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:32   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fingerz
Good CRTs still beat LCDs for quality at the moment, although the gap is narrowing every year.
This is what I thought when I got the Diamond Pro 2070sb.

As has been mentioned I either got a bad one or a good LCD.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:35   #24 (permalink)
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Good CRT's are still not cheap though, then there is the added issue of all the heat they generate and possible geometry problems. I think that TFT technology is almost at the point where it is good enough for a serious amateur like me, its just the cost is at a professional’s level.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:38   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah the quality of TFTs is certainly good enough, I reckon. But the price, as you say, is slightly prohibitive.

I hear you on the subject of LaCies using identical panels to cheaper models but you've already spent two weeks looking. I don't know what you charge per hour but you have to get to a point where the toll of the time spent searching exceeds the cost savings.
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:49   #26 (permalink)
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The cost to is nothing compared to the peace of mind I will have knowing that I made and informed decision in the end. You can ask any of the staff here, I am quite "particular" when it comes to details and getting things right, it is just the way I am and if I am not happy with something I usually stick at it until I have either got it right or done my best.

If I buy and Eizo or LaCie monitor and find out two weeks later that the same AU panel is used by IIyama and that they have managed to get it to perform almost identically but at £450 cheaper I would lose more than two weeks sleep
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Old 23-11-2005, 17:52   #27 (permalink)
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As much as I like to shop around for the best value, I'd be surprised if LaCie simply bumped up the price just because they felt like it. I'd hazzard a guess that they do perform a fair amount better.

But, like all things, if you can hang in there for a year the price will probably drop. Either that or they'll be offering more performance for the same price.
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Old 23-11-2005, 18:01   #28 (permalink)
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Both Eizo and LaCie modify the electronics in the monitors, they use the same panels but everything else is designed differently...that’s why they perform differently and why the buggers are able to charge so much. I have been reading that one or two of the other manufactures are now at the point were they are almost producing monitors of the same calibre...their next ranges are supposed to be including these developments. Obviously they will be at a premium price to their normal ranges but the big questions are, will they cost substantually less than LaCie and Eizo and will the quality be comparable? ...time will tell, the new stuff should be here just before or around Christmas.
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Old 23-11-2005, 18:30   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
You can ask any of the staff here, I am quite "particular" when it comes to details and getting things right, it is just the way I am and if I am not happy with something I usually stick at it until I have either got it right or done my best.
i can vouch for that, you have no idea how naff this place would have looked if Steve hadnt been overseeing what i was doing......:icon_eek:

*edit*

You should see the amount of logos we had before we settled on the one there is now!
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Old 06-12-2005, 18:49   #30 (permalink)
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Can anyone recommend a good 19 inch lcd that will not break the bank that can be adjusted fully across the gamma range. The 17 inch lcd i use currently has a default gamma of 1.0 and can be adjusted up to 1.8 where the pictures look ok, but it struggles to give a good contrast range if it is put up to 2.2?
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