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Old 31-10-2013, 11:37   #1 (permalink)
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more on copy right

This months Digital Photographer has an article on copy right, in it is a description of "fair use" which was news to me, some one can use an image to explain a point with no refferance to the author. There are several interesting points in the article and may be of interest to some here.
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Old 31-10-2013, 15:05   #2 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

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Originally Posted by blackadder View Post
This months Digital Photographer has an article on copy right, in it is a description of "fair use" which was news to me, some one can use an image to explain a point with no refferance to the author. There are several interesting points in the article and may be of interest to some here.
This topic has been extensively discussed here and has a lot of opposition from individuals and photographic organisations. It seems that any image can be used by anyone provided they have taken 'reasonable steps' to contact the author. Those who strip out metadata from their images - and there are a lot of people who do this - are more vulnerable to having their images nicked, but in reality anyone can have this happen. Another good reason not to upload hi res images to the web.
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Old 31-10-2013, 15:19   #3 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

Yep, having the law on your side is one thing - enforcing it is quite another.
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Old 31-10-2013, 15:34   #4 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

butt hats been the thing for years....... i dont actually have an issue with it, who ever uses it has to prove they have done a diligent search to an independant body and even if they cant find the author they still have to pay fair market value for useage and the independant body holds the money until the author can be found its actually better than it is now where there is no one to "pay" in advance of finding the author and although we have always had the law on outr side when was the last time any normal tog took someone to court for breaching copyright?
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Old 01-11-2013, 16:54   #5 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

I think in 99.99% of cases copyright is rather superfluous and driven by vanity. Anyway the increasing liberating power of the internet is making it more and more impossible to enforce.

I have spent a lot of time studying aspects of Law due to my involvements in many human rights campaigns.

In principle, I always believe that a photograph is technically the personal property of both the cameraman and the model(s) and for one part to copyright the material to the denial of the other is unethical.

But there are exceptions. If you are photographed in public, your rights to privacy and title are relinquished. You are as public as the property you are on.

If, say, people object to being snapped on a nudist beach, they can by all means put in an offer to buy the beach. Otherwise it is OUR beach; it is not their chattel. But neither is it mine, so the photo is no more my property than theirs .....it is also public property. Despite written copyright law conferring copyright on the photographer 50 years after his death, generally the public leaning is how the Law in England & Wales sees it in practice.

If it is a public event, say the World Naked Bike Ride, I always promote my pictures as "free". Yet there are WNBR snappers who retain "all rights reserved" (probably motivated by voyeurism) as if they own 1,000 naked bodies riding through the streets of London on an environmental protest. To me my pictures are a great chance for participants to see themselves out there having fun and as a reward for trying to help the world around them. Who am I to deny them that? Without them and the campaign, I have no image!

However, if you happen to be in a photo from which I make money, then the goalposts are moved gros plan. I will always share proceeds with my model, even if he were not "hired". Do not forget owning copyright does not legally entitle you to "use" the work. That is something of which few people are aware.

Fair use is just another term that is misunderstood. The concept that others can just use your work as references long as they are not making a profit is not completely true. You can bet your life that someone along the way will be earning from the work somehow even if your participation is gratis.

So what do I do if a third party uses my photo without my permission, you ask? Well that was easy... I always "banner" my photos creatively but excessively so I can never be excluded. If you want to nick it you will have to go to the trouble of "cleaning" it. If someone wants to use my photo as a reference and enhancement for their work, it will have my name engraved on it, so I will probably gain from that exposure anyway. It is nothing to get tetchy about.

So really and truly, I have no particular need for copyright.

If it is an image I will use professionally, then it is NOT going to appear on Flickr!

Just my personal viewpoint through experience!

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:24   #6 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

You might be right if you are talking about amateur photographers, but for the professionals who rely on selling their images to feed their children and pay the mortgage I can assure you that it is not
Quote:
rather superfluous and driven by vanity
You make a very detailed and lengthy argument which is fatally flawed because it does not impartially look at copyright as a whole. You have only applied a narrow and personal viewpoint and not considered the wider implications.
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Old 02-11-2013, 14:10   #7 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

I'm vane and superfluous lol, I've been called worse.
However if somebody wants to use my photographs I want paying for it,
I have had people contact me to ask to use them free for charity etc and I have allowed it but as part of my income comes from selling my photographs in different markets I do expect to be paid for it.
Looking at the bigger picture many people would be pleased to be published and given a credit but many others myself included are more bothered about the money rather than the credit. cheers
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:50   #8 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

gotta agree with Graham and Gary on this. thing is doesnt matter waht way you look on it,, copyright usually lies with the photographer ( apart from one or two cases) just cos you dont believe it does or it shouldn't doesn't make it any less true.
And there are different meanings to the word "public",,, you can be "in public" in a shopping centre. but try taking photographs in one. "in public means public freely accessible land which is not privately owned nor does it cover being in public in a paid to enter event which has stipulated no photos. so lots of variations. A very good friend of mine wrote the "Photographers Rights" article on Royalty Free Stock Photography by Simon Moran – Sirimo so im kept pretty well up to date with things.
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Old 03-11-2013, 09:50   #9 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

Yep, agreeing with Graham & Gary as well. You get fed up of the people downgrading the profession & wanting freebies all the time. I had a big London Page Ranking company contact me the other week, wanting images of churches for the church's trust. But although they wanted photographs for advertising, web sites & events, posters & leaflets, there was no budget for images. I wondered in my reply if the Page Ranking company worked for free? I didn't get a reply
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:15   #10 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

When I was working there was a large photographic department which is steadily being run down. One of the things that they used to cover was corporate events, but now they do not have the resources to do this. I was incensed when I got a copy of an e-mail sent to the camera club asking if anyone was prepared to photograph a Chief Superintendent's conference being held in a hotel over a week! This event must have had a huge budget, but rather than pay a photographer they wanted something for nothing! I, an a few others replied in quite blunt terms to tell them to go away, but sadly a couple of people put themselves forward to do it, thus denying the possibility of someone trying to make a living from photography the opportunity.

Photographers are truly a very under valued profession and the willingness of people to give away images (often very poor images) does nothing but undermine them further.
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Old 16-11-2013, 11:46   #11 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

I think we are all on a loser here,when we post our pictures on the net anybody can grab then as has happened to me, it does not really worry me anymore! but if one came up on the front page then yes there maybe a problem for who ever used it! I once spotted one of my bird pictures in the local paper the background had been removed and the picture reversed but I reconized the perch, I got on to the paper they told me they had bought the image from a agency! but the editor told me they would not use the agency again and they sent me 25 for the picture used, I gather it was the same amount as they paid the agency, I was quite happy with the outcome...........but other people may not be........
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Old 18-11-2013, 02:28   #12 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

I rather hope someone with deep pockets snags one of my images and uses it without my permission for something big..

I've gone to the trouble to register my images with the US Copyright office. in the US jurisdiction, if you catch someone and go to a lawyer the first thing they're going to ask is do you have a registered copyright. If no they're going to say oh sorry buddy. The infringers will also laugh at you if you just count on the idea that copyright exists from the moment you snap the shutter, but have no copyright registration.

Have the copyright registration here and you have some teeth to sue in federal court and get damages and lawyer fees paid. Usually the infringers settle vs. being dragged through the process and pay for more legal fees.

Costs $35 to register as many images as you want. I started by registering all of my old work and now am TRYING to do it monthly or semi-monthly depending on how much shooting I do. I go into lightroom and sort by date and pull up everything i've done since my last registration and export that to a folder, keeping the names I have.. and organize them.. do the deed on the copyright site and upload thumbnails. boom it's done.. a couple months later you get the registration in the mail. but it's protected from that point which you uploaded them and closed the filing..

I don't know how things work on your side of the pond..

I also have not personally gone after anyone to date for having my images online.. So i can't report how well the system works for the photographer. media I've watched and read indicates it is quite favorable if you play by the book.

One thing i've done though is establish prices for my work so if it does happen I can say here is what I charge, this is what they've stolen from me..

I've done this by licensing an image to a website for a set amount of money - it was a lucky break.. a politician needed the exact photo I had.. I wanted credit on his site, and worked out a deal to get my name on every page the image appears as a background and then said the licensing fee was $1000 for a year. Turned around and made another deal with them that I would make a $1000 campaign donation to them and we swapped $1000 checks that got deposited and nulled each other out. But now I have the paper trail.. Next year if they still want the image we'll repeat the process..

So far, I make very little money from this in reality. It's still a hobby, but it is starting to change - i've been selling some prints off my web site, and in person i've sold some 11x14 and larger prints by just showing people I know or meet, some of my best work on my iPad..

So i guess I have attained the semi-pro achievement now in photography... "Have sold my work..."

I agree the scary thing about putting your photos on the net is that anyone can steal them. But, I'm also going to look at that some as flattery. If people start stealing my images I'll know I'm doing SOMETHING right at least. If people want to steal it from me. There's a lot of people with cameras out there producing content, so if my stuff is being stolen, yahoo! (and then i'll sic the lawyer on them)
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Old 18-11-2013, 10:36   #13 (permalink)
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Re: more on copy right

I would just add that, while registration, is important in the US, this is not the case in the UK. Copyright still resides with the Author from the moment of creation. If you do take legal action in the UK, you may have to offer some evidence of ownership (e.g. having the original Raw file should help) but you do not have to have any form of registration.
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