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General photography questions and answers: Discuss New Toy...Ok... after much deliberating.. I finally decided on what mid range camera was to replace my 35mm gear. I've been ...
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Old 15-04-2005, 10:40   #1 (permalink)
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Ok... after much deliberating.. I finally decided on what mid range camera was to replace my 35mm gear. I've been a liong time Nikon user for 20 years, so the obvious choice was a D70. There was not really much point looking any higher at the D2x etc, cos for serious work, I use a Phase One based system... I wanted a good general purpose camera that replaced 35mm. So..... Nikon.... Damn them!!... why the great big gap in their range... a whole bunch of 6mp outfits... then nothing until the d2x.

I've spent DAYS poring over images take with both the D70, and the plastic fantastic offered by Canon in the 350d. I really, REALLY wanted to like the D70 for 2 reasons: A) It 's built better, and feels better, and B) I've already got Nikkor lenses. However.... the Canon's images are clearly superior... much less noise at all ISO setings... noticeably higher resolution... less artifacting.

I really HATE the manual operation of the Canon however... I suppose I'll get used to it, but it's such a departure from the Nikon system of doing things.

Anyway... you probably want to know what I bought then huh?

Well.. I got a 350d. At the end of the day, the image matters, and the days of the camera being a light tight box that holds your film flat are long gone I'm afraid... these days the camera has a profound effect on image quality, so I'd be a fool to get the Nikon because it looks nicer.

So far.... I'm happy with the camera's output. I Still hate it's plasticky feel however. The extra battery grip makes it feel more grown up, so I'll order one of those I think. The supplied 18~55 lens is utter rubbish though... if at all possible, buy the body only, and get a decent EF lens for it... this thing sucks!!!

Shooting speeds are easily a match for the D70... buffering is fast, and CF write speeds are pretty impressive considering teh RAWs are almost 9Mb. No Photoshop CS support for the 350d yet tho... which is odd, cos it supports the 20D.

I'll let you know more when I've played more... so far however.... it seems a great camera for the money. It is EASILY a match for the EOS20D... EASILY.... In fact, the image processor is better than in the 20D, which seems to make up for the 0.3Mp shortfall. It's just built to a price, and feels like it too... if you can live with that, I recommend.. SO FAR.... If there are any nasty sides to it, I'll let you all know.
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Old 15-04-2005, 11:28   #2 (permalink)
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I found that quite an interesting read. I've always been a Nikon man and I think the cameras feel great and still look better. It was the low image noise though that persuaded me to go with Canon. Are Nikon still using Clear Image Mode?- I had that in my Nikon 5000. It's a clever idea that doesn't hack it in practice. Since image noise is random dots which are unique to each exposure, in CI Mode the camera takes two shots, compares them, and removes any dots not common to both images.

In use, the processing times for the two images are a pain, the noise isn't that much better, and the edge is taken off resolution in the process.
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Old 15-04-2005, 15:04   #3 (permalink)
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I would recommend replacing the kit lens with a 17-40f4L USM as soon as you can. The lens is superb! :wink:
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Old 15-04-2005, 19:11   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyD
I would recommend replacing the kit lens with a 17-40f4L USM as soon as you can. The lens is superb! :wink:
Way ahead of you... :lol: Anyone wanna buy a 18~55 EF-S?
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Old 15-04-2005, 19:13   #5 (permalink)
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No ta i have one...and yes, its not a good lens really!

Congrats on the purchase, some people have said that there is a focusing issue with it, have you found that?
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Old 15-04-2005, 19:55   #6 (permalink)
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Apart from build quality, the main advantages of the 20D seem to be easier manual control (because of the rear thumbwheel) and faster burst rate. However, as Pook says, that doesn't necessarily justify paying half as much again over the 350D - especially when technology keeps marching on, so whatever you buy now is likely to be superseded within a couple of years. The main objection to the 350D seems to be that the size and small grip don't suit some people. On the other hand, I can remember when people raved about the Olympus OM1 which didn't have a grip at all!

Let's know how you get on with it.
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Old 15-04-2005, 20:27   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silkstone
Apart from build quality, the main advantages of the 20D seem to be easier manual control (because of the rear thumbwheel) and faster burst rate. However, as Pook says, that doesn't necessarily justify paying half as much again over the 350D - especially when technology keeps marching on, so whatever you buy now is likely to be superseded within a couple of years. The main objection to the 350D seems to be that the size and small grip don't suit some people. On the other hand, I can remember when people raved about the Olympus OM1 which didn't have a grip at all!

Let's know how you get on with it.

Couldn't have summed it up better myself. If you are bothered by the small size, and need the 5fps, then the 20d is for you.. if not, then you're wasting your cash, as the DIGICII processor in the 350d actually makes it a slightly better image platform if quality os your only concern.

Having said that, I can squeeze slightly over 3fps out of mine, for a total of 9 frames at RAW, then it drops to 1.8fps with a 60x CF card (Sandisk Ultra II). Unless you shoot wildlife or sports... you won;t need more than that... unless you want bragging rights down the pub!

The small grip IS a pain in the ass tho... You really need to get the extra battery grip to make this feel like a real camera.

I'll give you progress reports as I get to grips with it. I may go out later and take some night shots of my car... but it's getting very windy here, and being so light, it may not be a great idea... even sitting on a nice beefy manfrotto.
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Old 15-04-2005, 20:32   #8 (permalink)
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It was only the small size that put me off !

The 20D has a digic 2 processor as well ? or am i missing soemthing ?

Taken from canon web site !


Features


8.2 MP
5 fps with up to 23 frame burst
9-point AF
DIGIC II
E-TTL II distance-linked flash
USB 2.0 Hi-Speed/Video Out
Magnesium alloy body
Compatible with Canon EF/EF-S lenses and EX Speedlite flashes
DPP RAW processing software
PictBridge compatible
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Old 15-04-2005, 20:50   #9 (permalink)
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So it does. Makes you wonder how a slightly smaller chip can rival it then. I've spent the past week studying downloaded images of lens charts and other mind numbing things while trying to decide what to buy. So far as I can tell, the edge detail, noise levels, and moiré are all slightly better from the newer chip. The 20d still has the extra little bit of resolution, but 0.2mp is nothing to get excited about. With the 20d you're getting a better built camera that's easier to use manually rather than one that yields better images it would seem.... and better file handling/larger buffer etc... plus one or two other odds and ends. Both equally as good. One would survive being dropped, and one wouldn't tho... wanna hazard a guess as to which one? :lol:
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Old 15-04-2005, 21:05   #10 (permalink)
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Its ok, not trying to defend the 20D over the 350D ! lol

They are both great cameras, as far as i can see, it was only the 350D's physical size that put me off ! I found it awfully small, ie my little finger just hangs in mid air underneath it.

As far as i understand it, and i may be wrong ! wont be the first time and certainly wont be the last ! lol The 350D uses the same Digic II chip that is used in the 1D/1Ds Series 2 and 20D, with a (slightly) smaller CMOS Sensor. So far the images i have seen from the 350D have been impressive to say the least ! If i had been able to hold the 350D comfortably i would have got one there and then !
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Old 15-04-2005, 21:21   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanC_UK
Its ok, not trying to defend the 20D over the 350D ! lol

They are both great cameras, as far as i can see, it was only the 350D's physical size that put me off ! I found it awfully small, ie my little finger just hangs in mid air underneath it.

As far as i understand it, and i may be wrong ! wont be the first time and certainly wont be the last ! lol The 350D uses the same Digic II chip that is used in the 1D/1Ds Series 2 and 20D, with a (slightly) smaller CMOS Sensor. So far the images i have seen from the 350D have been impressive to say the least ! If i had been able to hold the 350D comfortably i would have got one there and then !
I know what you mean about the little finger.. LOL.. feel like Quentin crisp drinking a cup of tea when I use it... I really need that extra grip!!! Wasn't being defensive... the 20D is superb, and part of me wishes I'd bought it now. That will probably pass when I beef it up with the grip tho. I still miss the second command dial however. I think I'll live with it until used EOS1Ds MkIIs come down in price, then just go the whole hog.
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Old 15-04-2005, 21:33   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pook
I know what you mean about the little finger.. LOL.. feel like Quentin crisp drinking a cup of tea when I use it... I really need that extra grip!!! Wasn't being defensive... the 20D is superb, and part of me wishes I'd bought it now. That will probably pass when I beef it up with the grip tho. I still miss the second command dial however. I think I'll live with it until used EOS1Ds MkIIs come down in price, then just go the whole hog.
ROFLMAO yeah ! If Jessops had the grips in i suspect the camera would have felt totally different ! Because my 75-300 lives on the camera i just couldnt face holding it with my little finger sticking out, makes the whole thing feel unbalanced !!

And I echo the 1DS MkII ! would have one in a heartbeat if i could win the lotto, with a complete set of L series lenses ! lol

Lets face it, we both bought brilliant cameras ! Im not a "mines better than yours" type ! at the end of the day the camera is just a tool, if you cant use it, it will still take crap pictures however much it cost !! lol
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