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General photography questions and answers: Discuss Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop...Someone save me, before I go mad OK, before using a colour monitor calibration tool, such as Spyder Exress, with ...
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Old 27-03-2008, 20:45   #1 (permalink)
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Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Someone save me, before I go mad

OK, before using a colour monitor calibration tool, such as Spyder Exress, with the default colour profile in place I can perform following test.

With a shot of a person in black shirt in front of back screen, where I can just see the difference between the blacks. If I ensure profile in PS is changed to sRGB & then click "save for web", I can compare the before(PSD) & after(JPG) shot & they are identical ... as you would expect.

I now run colour calibration through Spyder 2. Calibration changes contrast & colours slightly. Profile is saved & I can check it is loaded as default in Windows. Now when I run the same test as above, the after(JPG) shot is different from the before (PSD) shot. I have lost the differentiation of the 2 blacks, so they now appear as one .... so basically shot darkened.

As Steve has same Monitor & make of graphics card, we spent over an hour ensuring all Monitor & Graphics cards were setup the same. I then sent Steve my calibrated profile, which he loaded. He then has same problem as me

Remove the profile & g back to default & I'm back to original scenario where before & after shots are same

Anyone any ideas, as this is driving me nuts !!!!
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Old 27-03-2008, 22:08   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Probelms with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

What do you get if you print it? Have you completely killed Adobe Gamma if you were using it before? Oh and I take it they appear different when you open them side by side in Photoshop not just within windows or your browser?

Last edited by VinnyP; 27-03-2008 at 22:19.
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Old 27-03-2008, 22:38   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Probelms with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

It sounds as if something is double-profiling.

Does the Spyder profile adjust the lookup table for the graphics card on boot-up? AFAIK that's the only way a profile can work with Windows apps that are non-ICC-aware.

Is PS then applying the same profile to the JPEG when you save for web, because you are changing colorspaces?

Just a shot in the dark, but it has to be something like that.... probably!
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Old 27-03-2008, 23:09   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Probelms with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

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Originally Posted by VinnyP View Post
What do you get if you print it? Have you completely killed Adobe Gamma if you were using it before? Oh and I take it they appear different when you open them side by side in Photoshop not just within windows or your browser?
I don't print from home. If I save the JPEG & open via Internet Explorer, or Fax viewer , it is too dark. If I open JPEG in Photoshop it is fine again
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Old 27-03-2008, 23:11   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Probelms with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Silky, all I know is if I go via Windows -> System properties, Monitor, advanced , then Colour Space, I can see the Spyder profile is now listed as default.
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Old 28-03-2008, 00:31   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Ok pretty sure we can crack it now!
Definitely make sure that Adobe Gamma isn't loading on start up.
If it isn't then try one more test. Temporarily change your default PS workspace to your monitor profile and see if photoshop now displays the same as windows hopefully it will! If so CHANGE IT BACK or you will be the only person who sees it that way!!

This should do it. Go to the stupidly very hidden save for web settings, almost like the hidden button in Mozarts ghost in The Net. Above "Save" and to the left in the top corner of the "Save for web" frame you will see the small double arrow symbol >> Click this to get the drop down menu. It will be your Colour compensation setting. If you have "Uncompensated Color" (Why can't I have colour for the 60% premium we have to pay for Photoshop in the UK) checked, change it to "Use document color profile" and all should be well. In the unlikely event it isn't this then try the other settings. Good luck!

Last edited by VinnyP; 28-03-2008 at 00:38.
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Old 28-03-2008, 08:35   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

oooh, hidden options .... cheers VinnyP, I'll give that a go later & report back
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Old 28-03-2008, 14:00   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

I need to try + make sense of this advice as well, 'cos my jpegs always end up looking different to the tiffs they came from, and they look different again once I've uploaded to Pixalo than they did in the preview of the final image (before uploading) Yesterday I compared a matching tiff + jpeg, and the jpeg was showing a darker histogram than the tiff, but it looked ok on screen Mine is a tonal issue rather than colours though, so it could be par for the course with converting to jpeg.
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Old 28-03-2008, 14:07   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

There should be no perceptible difference between a TIFF and a JPG provided the JPG compression isn't too high. Even so, in terms of colour and tonal balance, they should be exactly the same. The problems usually arise if the colorspace assigned to the image is different from the one in which it is being viewed - e.g. Adobe RGB colorspace viewed on the web (which is sRGB) or in an application/viewer which is not colorspace aware (which is also likely to default to sRGB).

Colour management can be a nightmare and, if using ICC monitor profiles, it is easy to apply the profile twice inadvertently.
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Old 28-03-2008, 14:13   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Could it be a factor that my tiffs are 16bit and jpegs are 8bit?
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Old 28-03-2008, 14:24   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Quote:
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Could it be a factor that my tiffs are 16bit and jpegs are 8bit?
Shouldn't! All my images are 16bit TIFFs from RAW (Adobe RGB) - then converted to sRGB for web display
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Old 28-03-2008, 20:41   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

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oooh, hidden options .... cheers VinnyP, I'll give that a go later & report back
As promised. Setup is as follows :-

Windows has Spyder2 profile loaded. (Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Color Management -> Spyder 2 on it's own in list)
Photoshop has Color settings for workspace set to sRGB . Edit -> Color Settings -> Workspace
PSD (Adobe RGB) opened of model in black t-shirt in front of black screen.
In the table below the columns in order are :-
  1. Ref number
  2. Color space used within Photoshop
  3. Color profile of Photo
  4. Save for Web option as described by Vinny in previous post
  5. From the Save forWeb screen (2 up) , the comparison of the "Original" version vs PSD version
  6. From the Save forWeb screen (2 up) , the comparison of the "JPEG" version vs PSD version
  7. From IE & Windows Picture viewer , the comparison vs PSD version


Now to top it all, if I remove Spyder profile from Windows, reboot & then compare any of the JPEGs created above vs original PSD .... guess what, they are all identical to PSD !!!!

My head hurts now .... anyone make any sense of above
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Old 28-03-2008, 20:50   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Here's your solution:

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Old 28-03-2008, 20:54   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

lol ... don't tempt me!!!!

The calibration tool (Spyder Express 2) is working fine. It's just getting all these different Apps to work together with a new colour profile !!!
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Old 29-03-2008, 08:34   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Problems with Colour Calibration profile & PhotoShop

Hope you solve it Dave.
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