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General photography questions and answers: Discuss some advice...Hi guys i need some advice here, i am thinking about entering some images into a small exhibition that is ...
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Old 13-02-2011, 19:13   #1 (permalink)
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Question some advice

Hi guys i need some advice here, i am thinking about entering some images into a small exhibition that is held every year but was wanting to know can i show them here first to see if everything is ok or should i to wait until i display the images in the exhibition first if you know what i mean, cheers
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Old 13-02-2011, 19:57   #2 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

In my camera club we preview images going into our yearly competition. Members can offer comments that can be accepted or ignored by the author. I see no problem in you doing the same here.

It also helps if you know who is judging the competition and what their photograph tastes are. It is not as though judging is an absolute science. In this years club competition one of the images was slated by a judge a few weeks ago but was put into the final 6 by another judge last week. That is the main reason I rarely enter competitions.
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Old 13-02-2011, 20:25   #3 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Thanx AQ, so could i have it just based in here then for say certain crew or members to look at without having to show it to the rest of the world as there's 1 image ive got & am more or less certain it has never been showen or done before
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Old 13-02-2011, 21:21   #4 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I guess if you wanted to do that you would have to do it by pm followed an email. You need to ask on of the crew for a definitive answer though.
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Old 13-02-2011, 21:37   #5 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I can't see an issue with showing the photos on a thread here provided it does not break any of the competition rules.

Bear in mind that anyone you show a photo to will not necessarily use the same criteria to judge it as a photo competition judge, so their opinions will not be any more valid than (say) the milkman.
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Old 13-02-2011, 23:08   #6 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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so their opinions will not be any more valid than (say) the milkman.
So that is what some of the judges we get are - I did have my suspicions
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Old 14-02-2011, 16:54   #7 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Sorry maybe put this the wrong way, the images go on display from various artists to photographers to be sold & the people that come through the doors [they are the judges/milkman] to look or buy also vote for the top 3 images on display for that week for a prise to,so i was wanting to know can i show them here now or would i have to wait till August till i put them on show there before i can show them here, if you know what i mean
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Old 14-02-2011, 21:05   #8 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I am sure that would be covered in the rules of the competition / exhibition. If it is not specifically excluded I do not see why you could not post them here.
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Old 14-02-2011, 22:28   #9 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Cheers guys
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Old 15-02-2011, 07:56   #10 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

If you posted them here without letting on that they were the ones you were going to enter, no-one would be any the wiser and you will get feedback anyway.
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Old 15-02-2011, 12:29   #11 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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In my camera club we preview images going into our yearly competition. Members can offer comments that can be accepted or ignored by the author. I see no problem in you doing the same here.

It also helps if you know who is judging the competition and what their photograph tastes are. It is not as though judging is an absolute science. In this years club competition one of the images was slated by a judge a few weeks ago but was put into the final 6 by another judge last week. That is the main reason I rarely enter competitions.
AQ looking at what I think is your Club website you have around 200 photographs in your annual Exhibition. My Club has 700 so individual comments by members or anyone else is not practical. I am interested as to what you do to control entry numbers. Do you pre-select, limit members to a small number, charge for entries etc. I am interested because my Club will have to take steps to reduce/manage entry numbers next year.

It is best not to take individual judging sessions too seriously. Most of us have experienced dissappointment when one of our excellent images is not appreciated by the judge but on about an equal number of occassions, I have experienced unexpected success when my image was clearly not the best. As you suggest judging is not an exact science but my Club does find that choosing very good judges (by reputation) helps; though we still make a bad choise sometimes. However, I have noticed over many decades that the best photographer do have much more success over a period so the good/bad luck averages out.
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Old 15-02-2011, 15:56   #12 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I do not see how you can charge more than a nominal entry fee as most clubs have some good photographers who may not have that much money and would be put off completely by the entry fee high enough to limit entries. A nominal fee will not limit the entries. I do not think pre-selecting is fair - who would do it and would they be barred from entry ??

We limit the number of entries per person to 6 - I think this is the only good way. Digital and prints are treated separately. They are judged by an external judge. I am not sure of the total membership but we can get 40 or so people to a meeting so I suspect many people do not enter.

Not all the entries get to be shown in the exhibition. For prints there is a cut off controlled by the space available. I am not sure about the digital as they are shown on a large screen TV in the room. As I do not usually do the competition I am not sure of all the fine details.

We go though the images on three successive evenings with the external judge and they give the marks of all but the top 6 - 8. These are only revealed at the opening night of the exhibition to try to get more people there. I was persuaded to enter the natural history digital section this year and we had a very good judge with an excellent eye. He picked 4 of my 6 to be in the top 6. Unfortunately one of the other two is probably the winner.

Despite what I may have implied I do not take judging very seriously. Now I am a bit older what was once a possibly unpleasant competitive nature and a burning desire to win everything I tried has all but dissipated. I spent most of my working life a research chemist and am used to working with facts not opinions which is my main thing against photo competitions.

I agree that the best tend to win over time but this to be a small group all the time.

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Old 15-02-2011, 19:01   #13 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

AQ, so far we have also concluded that we did not want to make a charge or pre-select. One major difference is that it is possible for an individual to enter up to 16 prints and 14 PDI's though few enter that any. To make a significant difference in numbers we will have to halve the limits which will not be popular. We have almost 150 members though less than half enter the Annual Exhibition.

It is the space to display prints which our real limit. Currently we are obliged to display all prints entered so how does your club decide which prints cannot be displayed?
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Old 15-02-2011, 21:05   #14 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Dave

Wow that is a lot. You must have a very large exhibition at the end.

I only do digital projection myself but I think that after the marks are given by the external judge they lowest scoring prints are dropped until the numbers are correct. I think that it may also be that everyone who enters gets at least one print shown. We use the Huddersfield library which has a reasonable amount of space.

I do not see how you handle that number of entries for each person I assume that you have a lot of classes. Who does the judging of them.

I could check the details at the club but not for the next three weeks as I will be away. I have just found some details that I could send you if you pm me your email address.
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Old 19-02-2011, 13:42   #15 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I used to enter three exhibitions each year and had some sucess then a clique formed by some people some of whom were judges and it seemed that it was the photographer that was picked not the photo. Due to health reasons I have taken very few photos in the past two years and have not been at the camera club or entered exhibitions but my opinion of the judging has not changed as I have visited the exhibitions, seen what was on view and what was picked. It is proably not the same everywhere but some people who set themselves up as judges have very poor assessment qualities or only pick their cronies work.
This may sound like sour grapes but I can assure you that I don't care, to me it is a hobby I take what I like and I enjoy what I do, I am not like some club members who flood competitions with large entries hoping for a better chance to win and take the glory. Who are they impressing only themselves especially if thy have to get their cronies to pick their photo. I am sure club members here know what I mean.
If you think your work is good enough and it pleases you pick a small number of pictures say three make sure the prints are perfect and well mounted and have a go, if nothing else you will gain from the experience which is always good.

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Old 20-02-2011, 09:34   #16 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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This may sound like sour grapes but I can assure you that I don't care, to me it is a hobby I take what I like and I enjoy what I do
Doesn't sound like sour grapes to me. I've never understood the concept of judging photographs. At the end of the day, all you can say with any honesty is "I like that" or "I don't like that". I look on the self appointed arbiters of photographic goodness with rather the same level of contempt that I otherwise reserve for politicians.
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Old 20-02-2011, 21:05   #17 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

The concept of judging is quite easy. Many photographers want to compete in Exhibitions/competitions so the organisers need some way to select some winners.

It is true that some photographers do have much more success than others but there may be a number of reasons for this. It is certainly not just a matter of a small clique choosing their "cronies" photographs. There is a possibility that competitions nearer home a judge may recognise an image or the style of a well known photographer and may subconsciously favour (not to support a friend) but "it must be good because it is Fred's". However, if this was a significant factor, how would you explain why the same photographers are successful in many international competitions where the judges could not possibly know them.

To be successful in national and international competitions, you have to try to win and thus enter photographs that are likely to be favoured. This will probably mean having very few obvious errors (either technical or composition). This in itself is subjective but there seems to be some consistency on this. A portrait with out of focus eyes, landscape with burnt out skies, excessive clutter etc. Next you need to understand the current trends and fashion and better still lead them. Originality seems like it should get more and more difficult but photographers still achieve this. Even then when you meet all these requirements, you will be competing with many others who also do so.

Many photographers do not wish to enter the fray and possibly change their photography to suit and that is fine. But many millions of photographers round the world do enjoy national and international competitions and that is also fine.

Have a look at a typical international at Toronto recently (as far as I am aware this is not the most prestigeous). All of these images may not appeal to you but these are typical of what does well at this time.

Toronto Camera Club - 117th Toronto International Salon of Photography. Images
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Old 20-02-2011, 23:18   #18 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Some nice images there
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Old 21-02-2011, 21:38   #19 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I joined the same club as Dave Canon some 10 years ago now only recently entering some of my attempts into various internal competitions and this year for the second time in the clubs annual exhibtion which almost beyond belief it seems ive had some form of "Success".
To me personally its all about taking part if you succeed good if you dont well theres always next time ive seen some images that are really good get nowhere and some that arent ticking the boxes get awarded.
The same judge at our club slated one entry when it was viewed as a PDI yet when the same picture was submitted as a print a few weeks later it was in the judges eyes the best thing since sliced bread!!
I only took photography up as a hobby and it still is. and to me if you enjoy what you do then thats all that matters Presently (the last 18 months) im working 12 hour days and weekends and rarely find the time to get out with my camera. And this year ive got one daughter getting married and another off to uni so theres even less time to get out and about. And as my wife has now bought 3 dresses for the impending wedding and cant make her mind up which one shes gonna wear still !!!!
End of the day enter your pics you will never know if you dont. Plus its all experience good luck!
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Old 21-02-2011, 22:16   #20 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Cheers guys
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Old 21-02-2011, 23:16   #21 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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my wife has now bought 3 dresses for the impending wedding and cant make her mind up which one shes gonna wear still !!!!
That's easy! It will be one of the ones she has not bought yet.
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Old 22-02-2011, 08:17   #22 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I agree with sejanus, you either like it or not, I too gave up on photo clubs, I had my share of awards but did not always agree with the judge, not only on my photos I might add, I remember one shot I entered, it was the last frame of the roll, I held the camera over my head pointing at a Banana tree, It was 3 stops u/e, but the judge carried on as to how much thought had gone into the shot etc, etc, and gave it an honours. By the way, no way could the judge know the photographer in that club.
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Old 22-02-2011, 12:11   #23 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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I joined the same club as Dave Canon some 10 years ago now only recently entering some of my attempts into various internal competitions and this year for the second time in the clubs annual exhibtion which almost beyond belief it seems ive had some form of "Success".
Muscle750 do make sure you turn up at the Award Ceremony next Saturday; I was at the judging.

Although not a regular judge, I did attend the training for judges. For a Club competition, the Judge is expected to not only critique each image but also entertain. They are supposed to find at least one thing positive to say about every image. Generally it is better if the Judge does not try to guess the technique used or the circumstances because there is a high probability of getting it wrong. Most judges are honest enough to admit that, although they may eliminate most images because they have problems, the remaining favoured images are placed mainly according to their personal preferences. However, most judges are impressed with something really different and original. One of the reasons why it is better if the competition allows 3 or 4 entries is because you can enter a range of styles/subjects in the hope one of them may appeal to the judge.

Quite clearly many who enter competitions do not necessarily do so to win anything but to receive the critiques and develop their photography. My photography was not developing at all until I joined a club and entered competitions.
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Old 22-02-2011, 20:18   #24 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Maybe it would be a good weekend to do the lottery as well

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Old 22-02-2011, 20:24   #25 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

I will be there i was actually "advised" by two seperate commitee members that it might be in my interest to turn up.
Ive even persuaded my wife to come along basically just to prove that every thursday evening whilst shes doin the dance class im at the club meeting and not at the pub !!
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Old 22-02-2011, 20:27   #26 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

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Old 23-02-2011, 17:42   #27 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

Muscle750. I know someone else who wants his wife to see him receive an award. I believe he plans to then mention the new kit he would like!!

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Old 23-02-2011, 20:39   #28 (permalink)
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Re: some advice

As my wife is good friends and used to work with our Chairmans wife i can see plenty of "shop talk" if she goes as well over a cup of tea and a slice of cake afterwards
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