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General photography questions and answers: Discuss At what point.............I was wondering today, while I should have been doing something a little more productive.....like drinking tea :lol: when does ...
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Old 04-04-2005, 21:54   #1 (permalink)
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At what point..........

I was wondering today, while I should have been doing something a little more productive.....like drinking tea :lol: when does a snap become a photograph ?

I atteneded a wedding on friday and managed to get well over 100 images on card, I was snapping for pure fun and the couple are expecting nothing from me other than to see a few images as an extra to the main photographers official work.

Now, this is where i got thinking !!!!! (YES EosD, i do partake of that from time to time :lol: )

Most of my images, i'd personally describe as snaps. while they look ok from an exposure and colour point of view they don't seem to grab my attention.

I'm sure that ADOLF snapper's official prints will all look the mutz nutz

Any of you ever thought along similar lines?


I'm not used to shooting people, maybe thats why i'm a little let down by my images.
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Old 04-04-2005, 21:59   #2 (permalink)
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Re: At what point..........

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfailure
Now, this is where i got thinking !!!!! (YES EosD, i do partake of that from time to time :lol: )
No. Dont believe it.

I wonder this too, as i class all my stuff to be nothing more than snaps!
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:04   #3 (permalink)
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My pics are always snaps ! lol any that come out any good are pure fluke !
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:15   #4 (permalink)
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There's very little excuse for Adolf not getting it right, he has pretty well full control over where and how he poses people. At weddings most people gather around the photographer and just take the shots he sets up. There's nothing wrong with that if they're photos for themselves, but in your case I gather you're presenting the pics to the newly weds so they're expecting something different even if they've put you under no great pressure to deliver the goods?

It depends really whether you've taken posed photos over and above what Adolf did or whether you've taken unposed /candid shots or a mixture of both. If you're not used to posing people, and you leave them to their own devices they'll just line up in front of the camera like a row of stumps looking like someone having their mugshots taken - particularly blokes. More than half the difference between your 'snaps' and his will that he'll avoid that and put people at their ease arranging them somewhat better. He'll also be very careful about choosing backgrounds which makes a huge difference to the overall presentation.

If you've been taking informal and candid shots throughout the day and evening, that's rather more difficult than you might think, in fact Adolf's job was somewhat easier I'd say, even if he's probably used to doing it. Out of a 100 shots though, you must have some decent ones. Time to sit down and see what you can do with them with judicious editing between now and when you hand them over.
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:28   #5 (permalink)
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My definition of when a snap stops being a snap and becomes a photograph is when someone says that they like it. Thatís the test you see, if it doesnít please you but pleases either your client (if you have one) or the person it was taken for then it is no longer a snap. Opinions differ, you only have to look at modern art to see that!!
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:31   #6 (permalink)
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Thanks for the insight.

The couple are actually old friends of mine, they are expecting nothing from me, but i thought i'd try and get a grasp on this people photography stuff and maybe do them a wee album to record a few other bits of the day.

I HAD the keep well away from Adolf as much as I could for fear of inserting his 1ds up his @rse !!! so any posed shots I managed were either off the angle he's captured or as the groups were breaking up and searching for more drink.

I think thats the reason i was having such a difficult time as i couldn't compose the shots as much as i'd have liked.


I tried as much as possible to get shots from odd angles to try and be a little different.

my main gripe with my snaps is that i've always got either the subjects feet missing, or an arm etc more often than not i'm finding that the shots tend to be waist up.

Is there anywhere on the net which might have tips for basic composition etc for people work?
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:40   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfailure

Is there anywhere on the net which might have tips for basic composition etc for people work?
I take it you have checked through our very own tips and tricks article, although not covering that area in depth there are a few pointers that may help
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:42   #8 (permalink)
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Stumps you could try a photography forum, see if anyone has any hints or tips
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:43   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EosD
Stumps you could try a photography forum, see if anyone has any hints or tips
Thats a great line :lol:

You could always ban him if you want to Stumps :wink:
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:45   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by EosD
Stumps you could try a photography forum, see if anyone has any hints or tips
Thats a great line :lol:

You could always ban him if you want to Stumps :wink:
he wont know how to do that, i havent shown him yet!
:lol:
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:48   #11 (permalink)
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HHHHHHmmmmmmmm a tricks and tips article you say

you'll be telling me next that a simple click on the main title at the top of the page will take me to the front of the site..... :lol:

Do candid shots of people have a duty to conform to the rule of thirds?
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:49   #12 (permalink)
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i dunno TBH!
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:50   #13 (permalink)
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I don't know of any web resources for wedding photography tips but I bet there'll be loads if you do a search. :wink:

Posing the bride is a classic. If you leave the poor girl to just stand in front of the camera, feeling awkward as most peole do, the poor girl will just stand square on to the camera feeling and looking lost. Go and talk to her. You're the photographer you can congratulate her and snog her. Well - give her a kiss anyway. :lol: Ask her if she has a best side, most women do and you can bet they'll know. Just turn her sideways or three quarters to the camera, but get her to turn her head back towards the camera. It's instantly better. It's about coaxing people into better poses than they would themselves, that's all really.

AS for cutting legs off and the like, if you're using an SLR don't forget that screen is pretty well WYSIWYG, you're looking at the print before you take the shot!!! And fill the frame nicely- don't be afraid to move in closer if you're not using a long enough lens. A lot of people seem to leave loads of useless space around people which could be subject matter. I think it's Arkady's sig that says "If your shots are no good, you're not close enough" Its not a bad thing to remember.
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Old 04-04-2005, 22:54   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfailure

Do candid shots of people have a duty to conform to the rule of thirds?
Rules are meant to be broken, guidlines are meant to be crossed :wink: Are any of your "snaps" turning into photographs yet?
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:00   #15 (permalink)
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I was using my 17-40 for most of the day, so loads of wasted space isn't really an issue,

As for them turning into photos, I sent EOsD some of the embedded jpgs the other night,.......what did you think EosD?

I can't post any from here tonight as i moved them from my laptop on to my main pooter.
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:06   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfailure

Do candid shots of people have a duty to conform to the rule of thirds?
Hell NO!!! No shot HAS to conform to the ROT and many successful and well composed shots don't. The ROT is just one format for composition which is known to work well. You'd be wrong to slavishly tie yourself to it or even try to.
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:27   #17 (permalink)
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Well thats a bonus then.

I manage to break most rules without even trying................

People work is sooooooooooo much harder than still life/cars etc. :lol:
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:32   #18 (permalink)
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i thought they were very good indeed!
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:49   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
My definition of when a snap stops being a snap and becomes a photograph is when someone says that they like it. Thatís the test you see, if it doesnít please you but pleases either your client (if you have one) or the person it was taken for then it is no longer a snap. Opinions differ, you only have to look at modern art to see that!!
I think a snap becomes a photo when there's some thought involved, and there's a story to be told. As for thought... I just mean it's got some element of composure.. it's been thought about. Snaps have the heads dead centre, regardless of format.. snaps have trees sticking out of heads... snaps never try to catch emotion or expression... snaps are just that... snaps.. Henri Cartier Bresson took quick, ad hoc photos... but they weren't snaps. My mum takes snaps.

It's not all about exact expposure, or pin sharp focus either... anyone can learn how to do that... it's about seeing what's in your mind.. what you WANT.. and being able to get it in the frame. That's when a snap becomes a photo.
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Old 04-04-2005, 23:54   #20 (permalink)
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That comment is exactly the response i'm looking for

We are all different, we all see different things in an image.........i'm struggling with not seeing much i like in the end image though :cry:
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Old 05-04-2005, 00:34   #21 (permalink)
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Oh yeah... as for story... I mean.. does it beg a question? If you look at a photo, and think, "yeah, just a snap shot of someone's family.. probably just stood there while they suffer a relative to shoot them... it's a snap. If they're doing something... if you wonder "what's going on there"... then I think it;s starting to leave Snapdom... and is on it's way to Photoland. If you ask this, AND it's well framed/cropped... then you've arrived.

Here's a snapshot of some people


Here's a photograph of some people


That's my definition anyway.
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Old 05-04-2005, 21:02   #22 (permalink)
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Thanks Pook

I think you've consigned all my images to the snapshot section :lol:
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Old 05-04-2005, 22:01   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalfailure
Thanks Pook

I think you've consigned all my images to the snapshot section :lol:
Nah... some decent stuff in your gallery.. admittedly, no people, but animals count.. still got to watch for interaction between them.. watch for expressions on primates etc. Just think of what else you can do to make it different.. different angles.. explore everything... shoot high, shoot low, get in amongst the action.. just do anything but sit a set distance away and shoot from one position/angle. Keep it changing... dynamic. Get your subjects doing something, even if it's talking amongst themselves, or with you.. there's nothing worse than the "say cheese" scenario... it produces the most dull, insipid, and lack lustre pictures imaginable.
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