Pixalo Photography Community

Go Back   Pixalo Photography Community > Photography Forums > General photography questions and answers

General photography questions and answers: Discuss Where does image quality come from?...For well over a year now I have been using an EOS 400D and in the main I have been ...
Welcome to the Pixalo Photography Community. As a Guest you are free to browse the site, but see what extras you get as a Member here.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-04-2008, 21:40   #1 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Larne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warrington, Cheshire, UK
Posts: 738
Larne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Where does image quality come from?

For well over a year now I have been using an EOS 400D and in the main I have been very happy with it. The images have always tended to be a bit soft but I have generally put that down to the stock EF-S 18-55mm lens and a bit of unsharp mask in Photoshop does wonders. I added an EF 28-135mm IS to the collection a few weeks ago and was a little disappointed not to see a noticeable improvement in the image quality but as I said, it sharpens up okay in Photoshop so no worries.

Now for a little while I have been in the market for a second body. My son is getting interested in photography so I wanted a second digital EOS to allow us to shoot together. I discussed the options with my brother who is a wedding photographer and uses EOS kit. He suggested going for a 'prosumer' camera as opposed to something like a 350D that I was looking at. I was sceptical, after all I would be dropping a few megapixels and would need to buy an older camera so it must surely be less good than a modern one.

Today the box arrived and I became the owner of a rather battered (but still fully functional) 10D. First thing I did was pop outside and take a few pictures. (Well, actually the first thing I did was charge the battery but you know what I mean )

I loaded the pictures into elements and you could have heard my jaw hit the desk from a mile away. The quality of the images, the level of detail, everything is light years ahead of the images I have been getting from the 400D. And this is without having to sharpen the image at all, just looking at it in the organiser! (Shots taken in RAW on both cameras.)

So now I can see the point my brother was making but at the same time I am totally confused. How can a 6.3 megapixel camera produce an image that is substantially sharper than that from a 10.1 megapixel camera when using the same lens?
Larne is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 01:02   #2 (permalink)
Quite Chatty
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 55
danieljamesphotography is on a distinguished roaddanieljamesphotography is on a distinguished road
User's Gallery
Re: Where does image quality come from?

though i have no real basis for this i would imagine it's the sensors, focus points etc that the 10D has and the processor, i've noticed a huge difference in 350D to 40D but not so much on portraits, it's more on nature/macro work
danieljamesphotography is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 21:24   #3 (permalink)
Growing roots
 
jake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 8,968
jake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura aboutjake has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Just a guess on my part but I noticed the other day when I looked at my Exif info. that I had accidentaly set my Olympus to a soft sharpness which I soon put right. Maybe you can alter your sharpness setting and it's been set wrong.
jake is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2008, 21:42   #4 (permalink)
Loves the place
 
silkstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Silkstone Common, Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 5,719
silkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of light
silkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of lightsilkstone is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

The megapixel count won't really make much difference unless you enlarge the image well beyond what you would normally view at on screen.

I still have a 10D and it's a superb camera. The build quality is better than most of the later ones, and I suspect that greater care went into calibrating them. My 30D has better high ISO performance and a larger screen, and the 10D won't take EF-S lenses, but there's no noticeable difference in image quality.

Having said all that, if you're shooting JPEG it also depends on the in-camera settings for sharpening, contrast, etc. It's possible the 10D has been changed from the default values.

Wanna buy another?
__________________
I answer to "Silky", "Paul" and "miaow".
silkstone is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 08:51   #5 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Larne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warrington, Cheshire, UK
Posts: 738
Larne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

I shoot in RAW on both cameras so it shouldn't be anything to do with the camera processing the image. Still, however they do it I am very happy with the 10D. As I plan to use the 400D for landscape shots and the 10D for more close-up stuff it should work out perfectly.

Another one? No, I think my next step (somewhere down the road) will be to replace the 400D with an early 1D. Again I am assured that even though the first version is only 4 megapixels I will be really impressed with the results. Of course if I suddenly win the lottery then I would love a 5D but I can't see that happening.
Larne is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 09:48   #6 (permalink)
Loves the place
 
JMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 4,945
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Why not hold out and get a 40D? I honestly think you'll be more pleased with that than an old 1D, even though the quality would still be good, you can't stop advances in technology in the end...
JMitchell is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 09:55   #7 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Larne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warrington, Cheshire, UK
Posts: 738
Larne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Well my thinking is that I already have one consumer camera and one prosumer camera. If I decide to upgrade it is probably going to be because I need something that the 10D can't deliver and while the 40D will be better I suspect I will be looking at a bigger step up.

Having said that you are looking at my unformed views as I start into a 'more serious' phase of my photography life. Right now my priority is lenses as I want to get into a bit of portraiture so by the time I am in a position to get another body the chances are my views will have changed completely.

When that time comes I'll be sure to ask for lots of advice (before probably ignoring all of it and buying something shiny and totally over the top )
Larne is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 10:00   #8 (permalink)
Loves the place
 
JMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 4,945
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

I can see both sides of your dilemma. I was in a similar situation a while ago. I wanted an upgrade from my D50, and there was a cheap used old D1, but despite the image quality, I decided it would have worked out worse than the D50, because it had less (or the same number of) focus points, 4mp compared to 6 (although what does that even mean anymore?).
So I held out and got the D300. I think that was a sensible buy. I mean, the only camera above it in the Nikon range is the D3, and I'm not a professional, so can't really justify the £2k extra.
Just thoughts
JMitchell is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 12:50   #9 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 104
BWEP is on a distinguished roadBWEP is on a distinguished road

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMitchell View Post
Why not hold out and get a 40D? I honestly think you'll be more pleased with that than an old 1D, even though the quality would still be good, you can't stop advances in technology in the end...
40D does not convert Raw images ( re my post to which youreplied ) so if Larne is using Photoshop CS2 she would be stuck

Last edited by BWEP; 11-04-2008 at 12:51. Reason: Error in text
BWEP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 13:00   #10 (permalink)
Loves the place
 
JMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 4,945
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Ah yes this is true. Good point. Although if you (he) could bare to get Lightroom, then you wouldn't have much of a problem, because that would be the latest version. Or you could use a free RAW converter, save to .tiff or (ergh) JPEG and then edit in PS.
I think it's terrible (even though it's a valid consideration) that software compatibility makes us think twice about buying cameras, Adobe aren't very forgiving....

Last edited by JMitchell; 11-04-2008 at 14:09.
JMitchell is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 13:55   #11 (permalink)
Forum Regular
 
Larne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Warrington, Cheshire, UK
Posts: 738
Larne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura aboutLarne has a spectacular aura about

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Larne is thinking that HE clearly needs a makeover!

As it stands I use Elements 6, I can't justify the cost to go up to CS just yet.

Niall
Larne is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 14:09   #12 (permalink)
Loves the place
 
JMitchell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 4,945
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light
JMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of lightJMitchell is a glorious beacon of light

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

*amended Sorry
JMitchell is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2008, 16:37   #13 (permalink)
Pixalo Crew
 
Markulous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Peak District
Posts: 19,640
Markulous is a jewel in the rough
Markulous is a jewel in the roughMarkulous is a jewel in the roughMarkulous is a jewel in the roughMarkulous is a jewel in the roughMarkulous is a jewel in the roughMarkulous is a jewel in the rough

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Users Camera Equipment List
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Well, if you want a comparison of MPs, take a look at some of my shots which are mainly Sigma SD10 (3.4MP) and, latterly, Canon 350D (8MP) with a few Canon 30Ds (8.2MP, tho' can't recall offhand whether I've uploaded any of these). The Sigma definitely delivers on macro and landscape - and will enlarge to A3 without any probs. But then the Sigma is a true 3.4MPs vs the Canon's interpolated 8MPs
Markulous is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2008, 12:06   #14 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 104
BWEP is on a distinguished roadBWEP is on a distinguished road

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMitchell View Post
Ah yes this is true. Good point. Although if you (he) could bare to get Lightroom, then you wouldn't have much of a problem, because that would be the latest version. Or you could use a free RAW converter, save to .tiff or (ergh) JPEG and then edit in PS.
I think it's terrible (even though it's a valid consideration) that software compatibility makes us think twice about buying cameras, Adobe aren't very forgiving....
Thanks again JM
Again I would make the point why should we have to by expensive specific programes when Adobe does through Elements 6 provide this facility but cannot upgrade CS2!!

Bwep
BWEP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Old 14-04-2008, 12:15   #15 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Reading, Berkshire
Posts: 104
BWEP is on a distinguished roadBWEP is on a distinguished road

Image editing O.K.
User's Gallery
Re: Where does image quality come from?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Larne View Post
Larne is thinking that HE clearly needs a makeover!

As it stands I use Elements 6, I can't justify the cost to go up to CS just yet.

Niall
Niall,
I used CS2 but found that it could not handle Canon 40d Raw files unless converted to .Dng.
Elements 6 does without the conversion factor and its Raw facilities are far better than CS2 with more options.

Barrie alias Bwep
BWEP is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Image quality/'better' lens water Cameras, Lenses and Accessories 6 03-01-2008 19:59
Quality! Gary Bagshawe General Chat 6 04-11-2007 23:23
How much does a 2x convertor impact final image quality Dave Cameras, Lenses and Accessories 13 03-02-2007 17:35
Nikon D70 vs D200 - Image quality Dave Which Camera Should I Buy? 7 15-08-2006 14:08
Image quality and effort, D200? Cav Which Camera Should I Buy? 24 19-03-2006 11:49


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 14:02.


vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ReviewPost & PhotoPost vB3 Enhanced, Copyright 2003-2014 All Enthusiast, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Pixalo.com

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196