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Old 05-10-2009, 02:07   #1 (permalink)
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Who has a solution?

Hi all,
Raw files from a canon EOS 5D MarkII fails to open in Photoshop CS3
when raw files taken with a Canon EOS 30D opens readily.
Current error messages are...wrong file format and error in program.

Please help anyone.
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Old 05-10-2009, 05:50   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Photoshop CS3 does NOT recognize EOS 5D MarkII Raw Files, what happened was that Adobe stopped updating ACR for CS3 before the release of the 5D Mark II so you will have to Upgrade to CS4 or use Canons Digital Photo Professional v 3.2 to convert to .tiff so you can edit in CS3, or just use Adobes DNG converter.
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:19   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

With each camera there seems to be a different set of rules!
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Old 05-10-2009, 11:56   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Yep

Just had to update CS4 to recognise my 5d2 files.

It's about time there was some kind of standardisation. Maybe thats not possible though.
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Old 05-10-2009, 18:54   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Almost every Raw file for each manufacturer and model is different. Adobe tried to encourage standardisation by offering the open DNG format and several manufacturers have adopted it. However, unless Canon and Nikon do so, the situation will not change. The manufacturers may well argue that the many changes in the information contained in the Raw files supports the need for changing file formats. However, I am sure that Canon, Nikon and Adobe could agree an open format which had sufficient flexibility for future expansion, if they really tried.

When I bought my 5D2, I also had CS3 and initially used Canon's DPP software. After one month and opportunity arose to buy new software so I now have Lightroom 2.4 and PS CS4. Do bear in mind that DPP will read camera settings and preset to match so is an option well worth considering. Overall I would say that DPP does a better job of converting 5D2 Raw files ( particularly for high ISO and/or large apertures) but is less convenient as it does not fit well into an Adobe workflow.
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Old 05-10-2009, 19:02   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

I agree with Dave that a unified RAW file structure would be ideal. The problem is that there is different data within the RAW files of different cameras from different manufacturers (e.g. Canon's auto dust removal supported by DPP) and it would be difficult to accommodate all the variations within a generic format. DNG was/is an attempt to do this, but it is in effect another proprietary RAW format (albeit one which Adobe allows others to use) and you can't be certain that you won't lose some data when converting from camera RAW to DNG.

The present situation is a mess really, and is made worse when companies like Adobe force you to buy the latest version of their software to support RAW files from newer cameras.
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:30   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

This was the original idea that bought about JPG format, a Unified "Suits all" format...
Unfortunately, the JPG format hasnt had any significant updates for many a year.

I do think its a shame that certain software manufacturers cannot update their software, but you have to look at the point of view, that they have to finally say they can no longer support "Older" software any more...
In the case of CS3, I dont think its that Old though.

However....

Doing a little digging has found the following advice... its downloading the plugin designed to work with CS4 and "Forcing" it into CS3..... sound good..??..
(Should work... its only a plugin, therefore a database, and being there is the same basic coding between CS3 and CS4, I dont see why it shouldnt work...)
As I dont have CS3, I cannot verify that the following will work, but would be interested to know if it does..

Quote:
Download Adobe Camera Raw Plug-In 4.1.1

Here are the directions I followed to install the Adobe Camera Raw Plug-In 4.1.1:

To install with Adobe Creative Suite 3 or Photoshop CS3:
1. Exit Photoshop CS3.
2. Open My Computer.
3. Double-click Local Disk (C.
4. Navigate to: c:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Plug-Ins\CS3\File Formats
5. Move the existing Camera Raw.8bi plug-in to another location (for example, a new folder on your desktop). Ensure you keep this version in case you need to revert back.
6. Copy the Camera Raw plug-in, Camera Raw.8bi, from the download into the same folder as in step 4.
7. Launch Photoshop CS3 or Adobe Bridge.
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Old 06-10-2009, 12:38   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

I thought that the new raw plugin was not compatible with older versions of CS...As I am a 5D MKI shooter and I also use CS4 it doesn't affect me though but I am very interested to read how anyone that is still using an older version gets on with this.

If it works it will save many people a lot of money.
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Old 06-10-2009, 14:51   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

... as I say, its a untested by myself "Hack", but it seemed to do the trick on the site I grabbed it from going by the reply back....
As you say, if it works, it may save people on here money....
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Old 06-10-2009, 17:59   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

... and if Adobe find out they'll plug the loophole!
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Old 06-10-2009, 19:16   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

I loaded CR 4.1.1 to CS3 and it didn't open,
Raw file bypassed CR plug-in and opened directly in Photoshop.
it would be interesting to see if anybody gets it to work.

Edit: I did some searching in the adobe folders and remembered that even if you put the Camera Raw.8bi plug-in in the CS3 folder you have to have the Camera Profiles folder too or it still wont work I will try moving those too, if anybody has a EOS 5D MarkII Raw file I can use so I can keep looking into this I'll appreciate it.
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Old 07-10-2009, 12:07   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

It would be interesting if there was a way to use the current Raw plug-ins in older versions of PS. However, the instructions above do not make sense to me. All versions 4 Adobe Raw Plug-ins are compatable with CS3 anyway but they only go up to V 4.6 (this includes the 50D but not 5D2). Version 5 (now up to about 5.6) are not compatable with CS3 so you need CS4. I have not heard of a way round this.

There are some changes in CS4 Raw processing and V5 Plugins that would require Adobe to produce significant updates to older versions to accommodate not just the plug-ins; it is not just Adobe forcing you to update. They spend money on producing the new versions with new features and need to recover that with profit. It is difficult to see why some feel that Adobe are being unfair because they do offer the free DNG converter which will allow you to continue to use older versions of PS with new cameras.

Photoshop is really for the professional market and not really aimed at amateurs hence the rather lower cost Elements version.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:17   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Thanks I did get the Digital Photo Professional I am able to do a jpg batch file and open the image in PS
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:19   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Your right but we usually find solutions and ways around it.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:23   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Well I am doing just fine now with my Digital Photo Professional Maybe next year after Christmas I will get CS4 first I like to aquire some nice lenses hint hint to family for Christmas.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:25   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

That would be nice. I did contact Adobe I must say they where most cooperative maybe if we all contact Adobe about this problem they will give us a plug in.
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:30   #17 (permalink)
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Thank you so much I will try this today and see if it works
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:32   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Now that wouldn't be very nice
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:36   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Under each post there is a 'quote' and also a 'multi-quote' button which make it easy for you to include what you are replying to as part of your post. I understand that getting used to how the forum software works can take some time but if you quote the post that you are replying it makes more sense for us readers.

Hope that helps
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:54   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Canon View Post
There are some changes in CS4 Raw processing and V5 Plugins that would require Adobe to produce significant updates to older versions to accommodate not just the plug-ins; it is not just Adobe forcing you to update. They spend money on producing the new versions with new features and need to recover that with profit. It is difficult to see why some feel that Adobe are being unfair because they do offer the free DNG converter which will allow you to continue to use older versions of PS with new cameras.

Photoshop is really for the professional market and not really aimed at amateurs hence the rather lower cost Elements version.
Presumably you'd be OK if Canon came out with a new camera that couldn't be used with older lenses "because Canon needs to make a profit" and "well, it's really for pros who'd really want to update all their gear"

Or your printer manufacturer didn't come up with a driver upon release of an updated operating system (which does happen, I'd agree - doesn't make it right!)

The fact is, for whatever reason, Adobe have elected not to support older versions of the software (and we are just talking about a relatively simple alteration to the RAW plugin)
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Old 11-10-2009, 13:53   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous View Post
Presumably you'd be OK if Canon came out with a new camera that couldn't be used with older lenses "because Canon needs to make a profit" and "well, it's really for pros who'd really want to update all their gear"

Or your printer manufacturer didn't come up with a driver upon release of an updated operating system (which does happen, I'd agree - doesn't make it right!)

The fact is, for whatever reason, Adobe have elected not to support older versions of the software (and we are just talking about a relatively simple alteration to the RAW plugin)
+1 for this. It's one reason why I'm an Adobephobe.

Slightly OT but just in case it's of interest, RAW support on a Mac (for Apple apps) is done through the OS rather than individual applications, so an update to RAW compatibility covers apps such as iPhoto, Aperture, Finder (the file manager/browser), etc.
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Old 11-10-2009, 16:10   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markulous View Post
Presumably you'd be OK if Canon came out with a new camera that couldn't be used with older lenses "because Canon needs to make a profit" and "well, it's really for pros who'd really want to update all their gear"

Or your printer manufacturer didn't come up with a driver upon release of an updated operating system (which does happen, I'd agree - doesn't make it right!)

The fact is, for whatever reason, Adobe have elected not to support older versions of the software (and we are just talking about a relatively simple alteration to the RAW plugin)
I have first hand experience in software development and lifecycle costs; version control and development are major issues and where costs can run away. Photoshop is probably one of the more complex software packages that we run on our home computers and Adobe are a very professional software company. Of course I do not know know details of Adobe's software development or costs but I am making assumptions based on my own knowledge of software development and Adobe's situation does make sense to me.

To continue to produce new Plug-ins to accommodate old versions of ACR will tie up valuable software developers but it is the enormous overheads of configuration/version management, documentation, testing quality control which results in a significant cost; Adobe cannot afford to damage its reputation by cutting corners. Who would pay for this? If the existing software version owners are not prepared to pay why should those who are prepared to pay for an upgrade, subsidise those who are not. It is NOT that Adobe have elected not to support old versions (they do) but that they do not upgrade them for free once a new version is issued. This is normal in the world of software.

It interesting that V6,7 & 8 of Elements can handle versions 4 and 5 of Adobe Raw but I suspect that this may because Elements does not link into most of the features anyway and only provides the basic functions.

Of course the upgrade cycle is relevent here. I am sure we would both agree that if Adobe issued a major upgrade every 6 months, we would not be happy to pay for upgrades so often. I assume that Adobe have calculated that they get the best return from the 18 month cycle that they currently adopt.

One other point is that this issue is only a problem when buying a new camera. If you buy a new camera every 5 years, it is not such a pain to update PS for £160 or so. Those that update cameras annually (I cannot imagine why) will need to factor in the additional software costs or use one of the free alteratives.

I have been caught out for printer drivers and even camera lenses. However, lenses and their interface with cameras has not changed fundamentally in decades where the difference between say PS 3 and CS4 in the last decade is an enormous change so hardly comparable.
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Old 12-10-2009, 07:46   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Quote:
Or your printer manufacturer didn't come up with a driver upon release of an updated operating system (which does happen, I'd agree - doesn't make it right!)
Just for reference....
Have been assured that as much of the driver architecture has not changed, if your printer,or in fact any hardware, works in XP and Vista, especially if there is a Vista driver (VR) available, it will work in Win7, pretty much 97%of the time....
(conservative estimate... I dont "Trust" microbodge promises..)

Microbodge "Learnt" from the fiasco of millions and millions of searches for suitable drivers when people changed to (spit spit) vista, and the hate mail received when they couldnt be found, so have decided that this new operating system will not require HUGE system updates...

As mentioned previously, I have had a trial of that new Win7 running on my "Spare" system, and my Epson R300 worked pretty much out of the box, with VR driver I had ready, (From the website..)my Logitech mouse and keyboard worked instantaneous, although they worked better with driver updates I had, again, pre-stored on USB drive.
Nothing else "Fell over" here, on-board graphics, HD graphics card, HD sound card, networking, all worked pretty much upon installation and addition of existing drivers made them work better.

PS... for anyone with Epson Printers, the disk supplied with them is so old the drivers used to drive deliveries for Noah... they aint even XP SP2 friendly, so do not install, go to Epson.co.uk/support to get "Working" drivers....
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Old 12-10-2009, 08:46   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Who has a solution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Canon View Post
It interesting that V6,7 & 8 of Elements can handle versions 4 and 5 of Adobe Raw but I suspect that this may because Elements does not link into most of the features anyway and only provides the basic functions.
Nothing to do with features - they have the spec for the RAW and just re-write the plugin to read in the new camera RAW. We're not talking of a software upgrade/re-write here but just a plug-in with relatively simple specs (yes I've seen them and yes I've tested software as well, 30 years of working in the industry). Sadly Adobe took the decision that rather than spend a little resource on writing in the new specs they'd prefer to make money by requiring users to adopt a software upgrade. Possibly understandable in the increasing climate of never doing anything for nothing but frustrating nonetheless!

Quote:
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Just for reference....
Have been assured that as much of the driver architecture has not changed, if your printer,or in fact any hardware, works in XP and Vista, especially if there is a Vista driver (VR) available, it will work in Win7, pretty much 97%of the time
More a case of if it works in Vista it'll work in Win7 as Win7 itself is 97% of Vista, just as if it worked in Win2k it worked in XP back when XP released
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