[Rob Barron]

Ok, thought I'd do a Dave and go mono for a change! I wanted to get both the castle and the background in and tried hard to achieve separation without blurring the BG as I wanted both in focus for this shot. I think it just about succeeded despite the BG being a tad busy. Hope you like it.

[skipper954]

I am not fond of the composition here. It seems like the fountain is in focus and the subject, and the castle is nearly an afterthought. I really had to look twice to find it.

The middle ground is much too busy and flat. Generally trees, leaves and grass don't do well in black and white because there is not enough tonal difference.

I was wondering about the tree in the upper left FG, but to me it doesn't add....it looks like a defect in the lens

Finally as the eye travels back to the castle, it seems to be in conflict with the top of the fountain.

The fountain should be a subject all to itself. I like the rings around the base. And of course the castle should stand alone as well.

skip

[Soupdragon]

"Au Contrare" my friend.
The composition has worked well as the desired effect was acheived.
Both the fountain and the castle were designed to be points of interest and there is a natural diagonal taking the eye easily between the two.
As for the "busy surroundings" my eye largely ignores this in favour of the main subjects.
Lets not lose sight of the fact Mr Barron was attempting to get two subjects for the price of one and I think he did rather well.
I think your comments would stand if it were a colour composition.

[fionaB]

and there we see the beauty of this board........... to have the ability to see two completely conflicting opinions voiced in such a friendly and helpful manner in not something u see very ofte....... and i seem to find myself stuck somewhere between both of them
I do think the pictrure is busy but knowing the place very well i know how hard it would be to quieten it down. I think the stray branch needs to be lopped off, but i like the contrast between the really sharp fountain and the softer castle.
Arent those Historic Scotland restoration people just the pits, putting up scaffolding right in the middle of the photograph! They did it to me at Stirling the other week as well
And i dont think i want to see this in colour....... cos i think mono suits it perfectly!
Rob, next time you up here gimme a shout and i will take u a tour of some of the other castles!

Fi

[Soupdragon]

Fiona:

Do you live near Stirling? my sister lives there!

[fionaB]

Originally Posted by Soupdragon

Fiona:

Do you live near Stirling? my sister lives there!

not far away Soup, i live in Grangemouth which is about a 15 minute drive from Stirling. Although i was born and bred just east of Edinburgh so I do know the city fairly well.

Fi

[Markulous]

Have to agree with Skip - subject(s) getting lost in the general 'bizzyness' (to use a technical word! LOL!).

But always interesting to see different viewpoints and opinions, so offer up the following as a potential alternative!



Crop (and left that branch as it's now helping!), D&B to take back surrounding foliage and emphasise the subjects (too much, I fear!) and sky

[skipper954]

I rather like Markulous' crop and dandb. The eye travels to the castle much easier, in fact the fountain sort of points to it, as does the branch in the corner. And the d and b helped "Markedly".

It is really interesting that such minor changes can, at least to me, make such a grand difference in the perception of the work. And it is even more interesting that an artist can see what is needed to make that change.

skip

[Rob Barron]

Thanks Mark, good work. I don't go much on the crop as I like the large rock area that the castle is standing on, I wanted to keep that within the shot and also the whole of the fountain.

However, the dodge and burn works nicely, could even burn down the foliage even deeper I think to pull the fountain more forward. I am in two minds about the branch, I definitely think it should go in the main shot, I am of a mind to clone it out from even the cropped shot, I don't think it is doing a lot.

Thanks for the work you did on it, I shall have another look at it and see if I can get the middle ground even more muted off with burn so that it gets all the focus where I want it: the castle and the fountain. With reference to the previous comment about the castle looking like an after-thought, I think that is a bit OTT, especially as I said specifically that i took it with the primary intention of getting both the fountain and the castle in the shot! If you had to look twice to find it, me wondering if you should have gone to Specsavers

Anyway, all valid comments on different levels. And yes Fiona, I'll take you up on that offer next time I get up that way. I love Edinburgh and can fly there from Southampton easily enough so I intend popping up again sometime fairly soon with my wife.

Cheers,
Rob

[skipper954]

Originally Posted by Rob Barron

With reference to the previous comment about the castle looking like an after-thought, I think that is a bit OTT, especially as I said specifically that i took it with the primary intention of getting both the fountain and the castle in the shot! If you had to look twice to find it, me wondering if you should have gone to Specsavers



Cheers,
Rob

Hi Rob

Don't get me wrong. I meant that I had to look more to find the castle because there was so much else going on in the image. I really knew what you were trying to do, because you explained it very well

And because I used to be an oculist (ophthalmologist) in another life, I full well know the value of correction of refractive errors with glasses, and even keeping them clean So, I hope that was not the problem And I had to make all these smiley faces so that you knew that I wasn't "dissing" you or taking unbrage.

skip

[fionaB]

Originally Posted by Rob Barron

Anyway, all valid comments on different levels. And yes Fiona, I'll take you up on that offer next time I get up that way. I love Edinburgh and can fly there from Southampton easily enough so I intend popping up again sometime fairly soon with my wife.

Cheers,
Rob

Look forward to it Rob, and look forward to meeting your wife......... she and I need to have a good long chat! lolol......... oh and bring your walking boots!

Fiona

[fionaB]

sorry Rob, had to ..............I couldnt help myself.............. honest!