Red Arrows at Sunset

Rob Barron · 17-12-2006, 20:53

I just got lucky to be staying in Croyde Bay, North Devon, when the Red Arrows sudenly appeared in the evening on a training exercise.

The sea is somewhat noisy as it becamse very dark due to the strong sunset and when lifted the noise is pretty evident but I still think the picture overall does not suffer too much. This is one of many hundreds of photos I have of the Red Arrows as they are a big favourite of mine but I have never got a shot like this of them before as you almost never see them in anything other than strong daylight.

This was on a Canon 10D with a Sigma 70-300mm lens, both now replaced.

**Dabhand16** · 17-12-2006, 21:44

With your PS skills, Rob, you could have doctored this one, but we all know you didn't!

Great shot.

Rob Barron · 17-12-2006, 21:56

Well, in a sense I did because the sea really was very dark due to being underexposed against the sunset. I had to lift it quite a way and hence the amount of noise. That naturally brought out the reflection of the sunset colours which i liked but I also accentuated the colour that was already there forming a line along the horizon as it helped to divide the sea and the sky.

So I can't claim not to have worked on this quite heavily really, just that the sky and the planes genuinely were caught together as is. Actually in the high res printed version you can see some of the smoke from the rear planes but alas this is lost in the compressed versions.

Frankly I would say this is a classic example of a shot that would have been impossible to capture in the normal scheme of things as the light was worse than tricky. But despite all of that, I would still argue that what I have reproduced, albeit with the aid of Photoshop, is pretty close to what my eye saw on that evening.

Just wish I could see that more often LOL.

Cheers,
Rob

fionaB · 17-12-2006, 23:21

stunning shot! the colours in the sky are captivating...... i have prints in my albums of the red arrows when they were up here........... or i should really say i have prints of the red arrows con trails! hehehe

fi

***Steve*** · 18-12-2006, 07:22

Due to the Photoshopping the image just looks fake to me

If I saw the shot with no narrative I would bet my life that it had been faked completely and that the shot was actually a composite of two. The arrows are too finely focused with absolutely no blurring from their movement while none of the seascape details ever come close to meeting that sharpness. Also the direction of travel (angle) and the position of them in frame also points to a doctored image.

That tells me one of two things...either it is a faked image (would be my normal response but you say it isn't) or that your Photoshop work in this instance does not 'fit' the final photo and gives the impression of a faked image.

I really like your other Red Arrow shots but this one does nothing for me as my brain tells me its fake, sorry.

TIM · 18-12-2006, 07:43

I'm sorry rob but I agree with steve, if I saw this on flickr I would scroll on thinking it was fake. The angle of the planes, and their positioning in the sky can still be spectacular, but with the sea looking like that, it all looks fake. I'd suggest loose the detail in the sea, and have an overall more realistic shot.

***Dave*** · 18-12-2006, 10:42

Overall image looks very impressive. How did you manage to get the planes sharp in that light though Rob, as I would have thought you would need to be panning like mad, at which point the sea would be blurred

, especially as the planes are quite large in the shot & the sea scape looks reasonably widely shot....so from that I deduct planes must have been very close to you & thus travelling even faster across your view than if in distance.

Rob Barron · 18-12-2006, 11:14

I have to say I COMPLETELY agree with Steve! If I hadn't taken this picture, I would be certain this was a composite. I think you guys know me well enough to know that I am perfectly happy to make composites and always say so, I have nothing to hide as I am fine with people doing whatever if they feel it produces a good picture.

So in this case all i can say is, that's exactly how it is. However, I think there are a coupl of factors that perhaps explain some of the points. The biggest questions is ALWAYS (from me too!) how come the planes are so sharp. What needs to be borne in mind though is that the lighting was not as dark as it appears in this shot. The strength of light behind the Red Arrows was strong enough to allow for a plenty fast enough shutter speed to freeze the planes but of course that made for the sea being very dark indeed.

To show you what I mean, these two shots are 'out of camera' shots from exactly the same time showing how dark the sea became if you shot directly towards the sun (Picture 1) and if the sun was a bit to the side (Picture 2).

Pic 1:

Pic 2:

I had a few minutes of trying and the vast majority ended up in the 'beyond hope' bin. The one that I was able to bring up to this level DID take a lot of fiddling around, trying to bring up different areas at different levels and so forth. Even the sky is very noisy in the darker areas to the sides (which were almost black in the original!) The planes are in the only area of the picture that isn't noisy simply because of (a) the light and (b) the fact I worked on the planes to make them as sharp as possible!

So there you go, what can i say? It happened! Ok, it happened with several hours of PS faffing around to get the final shot! I assure you that if this was a composite I would be more than happy to say so. In fact, aside from the noise aspect, I'd be pretty happy to have achieved that using a composite :o) The only thing I am stating categorically was NOT faked was those planes on that sky. The rest was a lot of work to get a passable image.

Cheers,
Rob

skipper954 · 18-12-2006, 18:17

Very interesting comments, guys.

**Sonsey** · 18-12-2006, 21:05

Very nice shot Rob, very evokative.

I'm also impressed by the PS work you've put into it, I'd be very interested in seeing the original unedited shot of this to compare the two, there must be quite a difference!

cotter · 18-12-2006, 21:28

I think if we had looked at this image 20 years ago we would all say it had the WOW factor.

Now because of our knowledge of PS, it's like our brains are programmed to call the image a composite. I must admit I thought it was till I read about it.

While I do like the image I still can't help thinking "nice PS work"

(now I fully believe it's 1 image Rob)

It's just my first thought as I look at the image.

Cotter

Rob Barron · 18-12-2006, 21:57

No probs at all cotter, I would say exactly the same given a picture like that, I honestly would. Oh well, there we go. It is actually quite an old one, I think it was about 4 years ago I did that, close to it anyway.

Sonsey, I was looking for the original when I made that last post, that was why I showed the other two as I couldn't find it. I think I would have dumped it long ago.... as I say it was about 4 years ago. Taken an awful lot of pics since then LOL.

Anyway, it has done what i thought.... got an interesting discussion going. I have always had the same issues when I've shown that pick so was entirely expecting the same comments now. Oh well, back to a hum drum shot for my next one, I shalln't court controversy so near to Christmas LOL.

BTW. maybe I should ask this on the other thread but I'd like to know how long people keep images they have not worked on. Do you keep everything all backed up or do you delete the majority and only keep the ones you feel you might do something with?

Cheers,
Rob