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Photo Manipulation: Discuss 72ppi or 96ppi?...I've always converted my images to jpegs of 96ppi, for the simple reason that this is the resolution of our ...
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Old 28-10-2007, 12:39   #1 (permalink)
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72ppi or 96ppi?

I've always converted my images to jpegs of 96ppi, for the simple reason that this is the resolution of our screens. I know most advice is to use 72ppi, but I've never understood that. Why 72ppi??

So I googled + found this interesting discussion on the matter. What do you think?

PS: Mods, I think the link is harmless, but remove it if you feel the need.
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Old 28-10-2007, 12:46   #2 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Buried in that is the explanation that DPI is totally irrelevant to displayed images which are dependant on the number of pixels.

DPI is purely used with respect to print (as printers will print at certain DPIs, so it becomes relevant)

This has to be the number one point of confusion for everyone, at some time!
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Old 28-10-2007, 12:48   #3 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Pay attention Mark, we're talking ppi here, not dpi i.e. re-sizing for web, not printing
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Old 28-10-2007, 12:51   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Same thing applies
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:11   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

It took me a while to get my head around this but ppi dpi, all the same really, To test this I took an image of the same size 1 at 300dpi and another at 72 then printed them A5 side by side, and oh look the one at 72 looked crappy and almost blurred whilst the 1 at 300 dpi was like a razor. on screen however I couldnt tell the difference.
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:12   #6 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

My question is about re-sizing specifically for the web, and I'm interested in hearing members' thoughts on this issue, whether they choose 72ppi or 96ppi, and why.

Edit: This is in reply to Mark; crossed in the post with Gary's comment.
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:16   #7 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

I use 72 dpi for web mainly because many libraries tell you that that is there requirement and if it is above this it will get rejected. and tbh you cant tell the difference between 72 and 96, well I can't. (no jokes about my age thank you im feeling rather sensitive about the subject at the moment after the student spanking incident!!!!)
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:16   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bagshawe View Post
It took me a while to get my head around this but ppi dpi, all the same really ...
It's not the same Gary. ppi = pixels per inch + relates to the size of actual pixels on screen. Dpi is printer-specific + relates to the spacing of pixels on paper, but the size of pixels is not affected.
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:19   #9 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bagshawe View Post
I use 72 dpi for web mainly because many libraries tell you that that is there requirement and if it is above this it will get rejected. and tbh you cant tell the difference between 72 and 96, well I can't.
At last, a pertinent comment
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:23   #10 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

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Originally Posted by Charlotte View Post
It's not the same Gary. ppi = pixels per inch + relates to the size of actual pixels on screen. Dpi is printer-specific + relates to the spacing of pixels on paper, but the size of pixels is not affected.
Ok I know it is not the same obviously, but for the purposes of not confusing anybody (like me) it is.
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Old 28-10-2007, 13:28   #11 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Bagshawe View Post
Ok I know it is not the same obviously, but for the purposes of not confusing anybody (like me) it is.
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Old 28-10-2007, 14:10   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

I use 'save for web' which defaults to 72 ppi.
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Old 28-10-2007, 14:40   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Charlotte, in answer to your question, the reason there are two figures often considered as the correct resolution for displaying on screen is that there was (not sure if there still is) a difference between the physical resolution of a Mac monitor and a PC monitor. The Mac has/had 96dpi whereas PCs have 72dpi. That affected the physical size that a picture would be seen on a PC instead of a Mac. If a picture was 720 pixels wide, it would show as being 10" wide on a PC (720/72) but on a Mac it would only be shown as 7.5" (720/96) wide.

With modern monitors and graphics cards going to higher resolutions, this difference is not usually noticed because we set our screens according to pixel dimensions, irrespective of what the screen size is. So if a Mac user and a PC user both have their monitors set to display at 1024 x 760 (or whatever!) the pictures shown will both take up the same amount of space. Obviously if the monitor's physical size is different, the picture will be smaller but will still be the same relative to the size of the screen.

You are right that dpi and ppi are not the same, hence printer resolutions are entirely different to a monitor's. In other words, a pixel on a monitor is considerably bigger than a single dot of ink capable of being printed by modern printers!

Hope that makes sense.

Cheers,
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Old 28-10-2007, 14:47   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Thanks for your explanation Rob, I picked up on the Mac -vs- Windows screen resolution difference from the article which I linked to in my initial post. Apparently both are now on 96ppi. Even tho' it is a valid point in the equation, I didn't mention it 'cos I didn't want to confuse the issue.

My question is more of a simple "what do you do, 72ppi or 96ppi?" You didn't answer

Edit: I keep editing this post so it doesn't sound as if I'm not interested in your explanation Indeed I am, but I'm also interested in the bottom line of who uses which res + why. I suspect it all started with the Mac/PC res. difference, but as that no longer applies, why are we told to use 72ppi when we are all looking at 96ppi screens
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Last edited by Charlotte; 28-10-2007 at 15:23.
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Old 28-10-2007, 15:49   #15 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

OK, think of it this way:
DPI and PPI are resolutions - one printer and the other monitor (one is DOTS and the other PIXELS, so they're not the same - but that's not the issue here)
A digital image has no resolution. It has size.

When it is viewed on a monitor the screen resolution will have a bearing on the size of displayed image (measured in inches or cms) because of the size of the digital image (measured in pixels)

Just as, if you printed the image, applying a resolution (DPI) to a size (photo) will give you a printed size (print)

However, just to complicate things you can force an image to adopt a resolution (which you might want to do if you were a DTP layout artist or a printer - to see actual sizes on-screen). But this very much an exceptional use and probably can be ignored by us mere mortal 'togs!

See DPI, PPI, Pixels - Facts and Fallacies and if you still want a thorough description stock.xchng - Slantsixx's blog - Resolution (PPI and DPI)
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Old 28-10-2007, 18:13   #16 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Mark is 100% right and this subject causes more confusion than anything. Image files have a native resolution embedded in their data, but for most practical purposes that figure doesn't matter at all. What does matter is the size (in pixels) of the image and the size (in inches) of the print, or the size (in dots/pixels) of the screen.

So if your screen is, say, 1280x1024 and your image is 1280x1024 it will exactly fill the screen, irrespective of the 'native' resolution in dpi or pixels/inch of the monitor or image file.

To answer your question, Charlotte, I save everything at 300 dpi because, for some reason, commercial printers like to see that figure as the native resolution of an image file. But again, it really doesn't matter at all.
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Old 28-10-2007, 20:10   #17 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Mark, Silkstone, so right.

If an image is 200 pixels across then it will appear on screen to take up however many inches 200 pixels takes on your screen. That will vary according to the size of the screen and the resolution you have it set to - any embedded PPI figure in your image will make no difference.

When it comes to printing I see the DPI as a recommendation to the printer, your image is X pixels by Y pixels and you'd like it to be Z dpi, it doesn't stop him printing bigger or smaller if he wishes.

I have a major issue as my screen is 52 cm diagonal therefore I can't use DPI at all and have to convert everything to DPC before I can view it .

cheers

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Old 28-10-2007, 22:12   #18 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Many thanks for replies

I was a little overwhelmed by the in-depth replies I was getting to a fairly simple question, to which I thought I'd get equally short replies. However, now that I've been able to sit + read thru' them in peace + quiet (little one asleep in bed) I can see they do actually answer my question ... it was my question which was not as straight forward as I thought it was


Quote:
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I have a major issue as my screen is 52 cm diagonal therefore I can't use DPI at all and have to convert everything to DPC before I can view it .
I'm not even going to ask what DPC is

Again, thanks all for taking the time
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Old 28-11-2007, 13:13   #19 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

This is a really good question actually because I have found this subject quite confusing also in some areas, can I extend this question further by asking if anyone knows whether a high ppi used for web resolution makes any diffrence?(ie: should it be downsized to prevent theft if the ppi is very large or maybe will create a larger file?)

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Old 28-11-2007, 13:56   #20 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nursepayne View Post
This is a really good question actually because I have found this subject quite confusing also in some areas, can I extend this question further by asking if anyone knows whether a high ppi used for web resolution makes any diffrence?(ie: should it be downsized to prevent theft if the ppi is very large or maybe will create a larger file?)

Elle~~
As I mentioned above, PPI is totally irrelevant when displaying an image. Size of file, in pixels, is relevant and obviously the larger the file the easier it is to nick!

Having said that, you can get a reasonable pic from a 500px image if you really need to do so, so the only sure way of preventing someone grabbing your pics is to never upload them to the 'Net
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Old 28-11-2007, 14:28   #21 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Your images will get lifted if they are the internet all over the place unfortunately, but its more about preventing the images from being printable and I resize all mine to 400 by 600 which you really can get nothing out of.
A photographer a while ago told me that as long as they were at this size and at 72ppi they are unprintable.(however mine are saved at 240 ppi) But if they ppi doesn't make the image easier to interpolate then I should be covered.
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Old 28-11-2007, 14:37   #22 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nursepayne View Post
Your images will get lifted if they are the internet all over the place unfortunately, but its more about preventing the images from being printable and I resize all mine to 400 by 600 which you really can get nothing out of.
A photographer a while ago told me that as long as they were at this size and at 72ppi they are unprintable.(however mine are saved at 240 ppi) But if they ppi doesn't make the image easier to interpolate then I should be covered.
Yeah, PPI is irrelevant (as your photographer should've known) - I've seen a 1,000px upsized to be printed @ A4 and it looked pretty good (it wasn't a really detailed shot) but you're fairly safe @ 600px and your watermark makes it all a little more bothersome to do!
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Old 28-11-2007, 14:43   #23 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

I never give it a thought until sending a picture to someone else then if they insist on a number of pixels per unit distance then I oblige them.
Since I can resize the image on screen and resize the image in my printer software the ppi seems irrelevant to screen viewing.
Most software these days allows viewing actual pixels i.e. each pixel in the data file is allocated one pixel on the screen.

When printing it is recomended that you have at least 200 ppi. So I do sometimes check what the ppi is at the required print size especially when an image has been cropped.


But beware in photoshop. If you change the number of pixels per inch using Image>Resize>Image Size and have the Resample Image box checked then it will change the number of pixels in the image. This could lead to a deterioration of the image.

My rule of thumb then is leave well alone.
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Old 28-11-2007, 22:11   #24 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

A "point" is 1/72 ". Its a typagraphical measurment.
Pica (unit of measure) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As digital images and printing and stuff comes from the printing industry this was a standard.

I have no idea if there was a physical device that was that resolution. I think the early macs, in the good old days before multi sync, were always the correct size. I think if you drew sumut 1" square you could measure it with a ruler on the screen. The pixels may even have been 72 per an inch.

Stop Press: Mac plus had a 72dpi screen
Macintosh Plus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A "pixel for pixel" 72 DPI image would be physically the correct size on a mac plus!

Last edited by snap2photo; 28-11-2007 at 22:24. Reason: (I said a pica was 1/72 of an inch- Wrong a point is 1/72 inch. A pica is 12 points or 1/72 of a foot.)
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Old 28-11-2007, 22:21   #25 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Hers some more gumff. Windows systems often report that the monitor is 96dpi. I think it is a bit of a legicy thing.
fontblog : Where does 96 DPI come from in Windows?
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Old 29-11-2007, 13:03   #26 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Charlotte, the answer is I do not bother to set it unless I am printing. It is irrelevant for web use though sometimes a figure is specified but usually by people who do not understand. I send digital files to international and national competitions and originally about half were specifying ppi which I ignored but now it is rare to be asked as they have all gradually realised its irrelevance to a monitor display or projection. Of course if a picture library demands a certain figure, it would be best to comply.

I just uploaded four pics for the Gallery and have just checked to find that they were between 210 and 240 ppi which is probably because they have been printed in the past. If I had set them to 72 ppi they would not look any different in the Gallery.

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Old 30-11-2007, 11:57   #27 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

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Old 17-12-2007, 12:58   #28 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

blimey tiny pixels are causing such a heated debate
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Old 18-12-2007, 07:22   #29 (permalink)
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Re: 72ppi or 96ppi?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Summerleft View Post
blimey tiny pixels are causing such a heated debate
From tiny pixels big images grow!
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